Sally Porteous: [00:00:00] Welcome back to The Event Show. I'm Sally Porteous, and this is the podcast for anyone who lives and breathes events. Whether you're agency side, in-house, freelancing, or the person who somehow ends up running the community festival every year, this episode will resonate.
Today, I'm joined by Nadine Cove, an event professional who has worn a lot of hats in this industry, from owning her own agency to freelancing in the green fields of Tasmania. In this episode, we get into the identity question, what we call ourselves, what labels actually mean, and how the lines between roles keep shifting.
We also talk about the realities of delivering events, scope creep, supplier relationships, AV, and risk decisions, and the governance and budget pressures that are increasingly shaping what's possible to pull off. Man, we get into a lot, because we also get into what makes in-person experiences genuinely great and what we might be losing when we settle for less.
It's a wide-ranging conversation, and I think there's something [00:01:00] in it for everyone who works in this space. Nadine, welcome to The Event Show. But before we begin, I have to ask, you mentioned to me before we hit record that you've been listening to a lot of podcasts lately. What is it about a good podcast that keeps you hooked?
Nadine Cove: So my daughter tells me that, if you feel the urge to correct or interject into a conversation on a podcast, then they're nailing the podcast. So, I thought that that was a really interesting insight. Which of course you can't. I spend the the hour or so in the car going, "I want to add to this, I want to agree, or I want to disagree, or I want to..." But what I was going to say that they... Well, this particular one that I'm listening to, they, I agree with you about talking over somebody and how do you stop them and go, "Hey, that was a really cool point. Can we just kind of, spend more time on that?"
They've, they've [00:02:00] mastered the a thing called the talking stick, so that no one talks- Mm ... until that person who's got the talking stick says whatever their piece is. And then they can all ask questions after that. But, they are producing. They have a producer who's probably got some pretty excellent equipment, I would imagine and, some pretty good experience and capability at just focusing on audio ed- or audio editing, et cetera. So, yeah, we do our best, don't we?
Sally Porteous: We do. We do. Yeah. It's so interesting that body language and I guess, this could flow into our conversation is, is the whole body language and being in person.
There's so many more cues, isn't there? Like, when we're at a live in-person event there's so many more cues that are available to us than if we're in a virtual event. That's so interesting.
Nadine Cove: Oh, I agree. And look of course, during COVID everyone did the pivot. I mean, I think I got dizzy from the pivot. We [00:03:00] pivoted so many times, I didn't know what was up or down, or in or out, or front or back. But a h- I, I can understand the inclination to resist a in-person, a- attending an in-person event. Like, I get it. I have that too. But hybrid events, they're just- they don't work for me. O- other people may have mastered them really well, but I, I certainly haven't.
I think we spend so much time worrying about whether or not the people on the screen are included that we forget about the people in the room. Or we do the complete opposite and we inadvertently focus on the people in the room. And or I've also had, very amusing, where the tech's not been great, and then there's a, a room full of people with laptops in front of them, and then a screen full of people.
And I go, "What, what are we trying to achieve here?" Like- Yeah ... this is just,
Sally Porteous: uh um- I know, I know. I find that so interesting. [00:04:00] I went to a conference last, last week, week before last, And the recordings were avail- like, I could pay extra for the recordings to have the recordings for 12 months, which of course I did 'cause I always have FOMO.
But I, I spent the majority of the time actually at the conference in the room. And but they had very long breaks, very, very long breaks in the afternoon because they were trying to run workshops at the same time. And of course, if you hadn't booked for a workshop, you had nothing to do. So there was like an hour and a half break between afternoon tea and then the next plenary session if you weren't in a workshop.
So I ended up going, "Oh, look, I'm going to go home. And so I watched, watched them online when I got home, and the experience was so-
Nadine Cove: Yeah ...
Sally Porteous: so flat. Like, it just... Like, in the... 'Cause it was at the Brisbane Powerhouse, which is a, is a it's a p- purpose-built theater.
So the sound system, the screen, everything is, is incredible. Like, it's a performance space. And so [00:05:00] when I'm watching it on my little laptop at home, Yeah ... I'm not getting the same sound experience. I'm not getting the same, I don't know, the same visceral response to what was going on on stage. It was... I found it really interesting, really interesting.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. And I guess, movies and things are really struggling with that show up and see a movie in person. Cinemas their numbers seem to be... Certainly when I go, and I actually go quite regularly we've always been very devoted to movies in terms of screen-based content as a family.
My mom and dad were very into movies and, I was as well. And and I encouraged our children to do that 'cause obviously I could manage and control that content. I could pre-edit it. Mm. I knew exactly what the content was going to be that they were exposed to. And I get maybe that was my version of raising my kids with a screen, but I think that they, they took away so many lessons, those friendship [00:06:00] lessons and that helping others and self-sacrifice and all those things.
But there was nothing that compared to either a live show or, seeing a movie on the big screen, and I still feel like that. But, like, I guess that's the cinema industry's worry. They still keep pumping out the movies, but the difference between... I just saw Devil Wears Prada at the movies with my mom. Mm. And I'll probably watch it again 'cause I just like the movie, which will be at home, and we're not really big screen people at home. We've got average size screen, but- i know the experience will be different and the concentration that's required kind of demanded at the movies or like you were saying in a conference, I still do see people on their phones, but it's very quick.
It's not that kind of scrolling and watching at the same time. It, might be handling a putting out a fire or [00:07:00] troubleshooting something that's happening at work. Yeah. But they're really... A- and whether that's a peer group pressure or a guilt thing or you like to think as a conference organiser just nailed the speaker so they can't turn away,
Sally Porteous: you know what? I've, I've just been to the movies myself and, and that's a really interesting thing you've raised. Because I, I wonder would people, would more people go to the movies if it was an individual experience? Because what I find myself doing at the movies is having to consider everybody else in the cinema.
So I don't want to go on my phone because I don't want the person behind me, having to have the glary bright light of my phone, for example. Or I take my granddaughter to see Toy Story, and she's eight, and luckily we're in Toy Story 'cause she wants to talk through the whole movie. And, but it's, so does every other kid in the cinema- Yes
as well. So that's okay for that movie. But you have, like, you have to sit there and [00:08:00] quietly watch the film. So it's not actually... I don't think, I don't... You know what? I don't think the issue is actually going out and going to the movies, it's having to conform to this behavior where you have to sit quietly, not bother others, eat quietly, don't rattle your pack, rustle your packet of chips.
Yeah. Don't talk to each other because you're not allowed. Like, because part of a movie is discussing what's going on in the movie, right?
Nadine Cove: Oh, 100%. How
Sally Porteous: interesting.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. Yeah.
Sally Porteous: How interesting. I wonder how we can- I wonder if any of that relates to our events. Like, are people coming ... Like, I went to that conference, the conference I went to week before last.
I actually challenged myself, because I, I'm a prolific networker normally, not so much this year because I really kind of overdid it last year and went to a lot of things. But I we- I went to that and [00:09:00] challenged myself not to meet anyone. I went to just ... I said, I said to myself, "I just want to immerse in this material.
I don't want to be influenced by anyone's opinion. I just want to take it in." Because it, it was not in my field. The room was, like, traditional designers, graphic designers product designers. Packaging, marketing all of that kind of design field. Not exper- well, I suppose there was one or two experienced designers that I met, but tradition- like, traditional design people were there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was more I wanted in- creative inspiration was what I went for, what I was looking for, and I wanted to just hang out with people who were doing really creative work and, and finding the time to do that creative work. So I challenged myself not to meet anyone. And so I found myself trying to find space in the room where the person beside me wasn't going to talk to me.
And, and they put a sticker on my lanyard. They put [00:10:00] a sticker on my name tag that identified that I was there by myself, and therefore willing to connect. And she didn't ask me before she put it on me, and I was like, "Oh, I, I don't actually want people to know that." No. I didn't want people to know there I was on my own, and I didn't real- I wasn't, I didn't want to connect with anyone.
Nadine Cove: So- But that's that's a really major sales point, though, isn't it? Like, a selling point for conferences. Networking. Like, "What are you going to get out of the conference?
Why do you want to come?" To network. Like, that's a massive, massive- Because
Sally Porteous: people claim that's what they want, but I don't know, I don't know that they do. 'Cause no one ... I had maybe two people, like, over three whole days, including an after-party. I only had three people approach me and proactively engage in a conversation with me out of, out of 1,200 people a day
Nadine Cove: Yeah.
A- and look, and I did so much [00:11:00] networking in the '80s. I've, I'm over networked. I'm so bad at it these days. I just small talk and correcting the way that people pronounce my name. Like I'm just... It's Nadine.
Sally Porteous: Okay, let's go there. Let's go there. H- how? H- what, am I pronouncing it wrong?
Nadine Cove: No, no, no, no, no. It's just Nadine. Like, it's just, it's so simple. But, Oh ... I think I just got, yeah, I just got so over networked that I, I just... this is way before COVID, way before we had any permission to, to not network or, hang around with people anymore. I'm... And look, j- just to be clear, I am definitely not antisocial.
I'm definitely antisocial this year. My dad died in October, and we're reeling from that. So I'm- Oh ... can feel myself very inwardly focused. Yeah. Wow ... don't have the same- I'm sorry to hear that.
Sally Porteous: That's, that's hard. Yeah. [00:12:00] Yeah.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. No. Wow and it was completely unexpected. It just was here one day and gone the next.
A- I mean-
Sally Porteous: Oh, mine was the same. Weird. That's really interesting. My dad also passed, not last October, it was 10 years ago now. More than that actually. But it was October, and it was unexpected. It, he just, yeah, went to bed one night and didn't wake up the next morning.
Nadine Cove: Oh, no. Ours was... We've just started a, a olive business.
So we have grow olives, and my dad was helping my husband at one of the farms. And they had just had a beautiful morning tea together and a chitchat. And Dad was... I mean, he was in his 80s. He was definitely slower than, in his 50s or 60s. But he had said to my husband, "I'm going to stay at the machine."
And they were mulching at the time, "And you can drag the branches up to me." And my husband literally turned around to go to get a big branch about two trees away, and turned back, [00:13:00] and my dad was in the long grass looking at the blue sky.
Sally Porteous: Oh, wow.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. So, it's... I can definitely feel myself being very inwardly focused.
I delivered an event Oh, a big festival about four weeks later. I, look, I dropped a couple of balls. Nothing that anyone would notice and nothing that would, put anyone at risk. Just a couple of details that is not like me at all. I am- an overachieving perfectionist. But it was-
Sally Porteous: You're in good company.
Nadine Cove: I know. You're in good company. Actually my girlfriend rang me last night who also I, It was interesting listening to you about the conference because I met her 14 years ago at a, on a job a job that we were working or a workplace that we were working together.
And she has since become one of my closest friends, and also does... She's a graphic designer with a fine arts degree, and she's a ceramicist and and an [00:14:00] exceptional photographer. And so she does all of my design work. There's just no, there's no other options for me. Like, she's just the bee's knees as far as that goes, and lots of other things.
But I was saying something to her about something last night, and she was giving me this big lecture about, "You shouldn't question yourself. You are good at this. You are good at that." "You are amazing at doing blah, blah, blah." And you need those people in your corner, don't you, that, kinda give you those little boosts. But yeah. In terms of... I, I, sorry, I think I lost my train of thought then. But just going back to the networking I definitely stopped feeling like I should do that. And I... Look, and I know that I, I know of friends in the tourism industry, 'cause obviously my background's tourism events and hospitality, and communications and media now.
So I've kind of got a number of bows. But I, I, I'm reluctant to really put that out there in a way because I don't want it to sound like [00:15:00] I'm a master of many and an expert at none. So, . But they are very intrinsically sort of connected, I think, those, those four industries. Yeah.
Sally Porteous: But- I think we all float, I think we all float between all of, all of those things.
I just want to go back to, you were talking about you delivered events four weeks afterwards, after you lost your dad.
Nadine Cove: Yeah, I did. Yeah.
Sally Porteous: The reason I want to go back there, I've just sent my newsletter out this week in relation to burnout,
Nadine Cove: I read that. How to deal with. Yep.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. And it had me reflecting on some experience that I've had on burnout.
And, similar to you, when my dad passed, I was on a gig that... I was on a, on a job that the, th- by the end of the job I had delivered 53 events over three weeks across three states of Australia.
Nadine Cove: Ooh.
Sally Porteous: And, and I only got the gig in August, and it was deliverable in [00:16:00] December, and I had to not only program the whole thing, I had to connect everyone, deliver. I had to do everything. And so I got the gig in the August for deliverability in December. My dad passed in the October. I took a week off to look after that whole process. Great family, great brothers that, that obviously did lots, and sisters-in-laws that did lots of things as well. But I was actually grateful to be so busy because I, I couldn't, I didn't have time to- Wallow in it, if that makes sense. But I do wonder if it, it, if that was a good idea.
Nadine Cove: No. I think, Sally, that we're both probably very similar in that respect. I had a little bit of time. So, so I have sort of two, like any or many event managers and particularly in this economy I, I have a couple of gigs and so I did [00:17:00] have time off from one of those, particularly just like you, just to help, cross, cross the Ts and dot the Is around the things that needed to be done.
I've got a sister and she was amazing as well. My mom was just in shock really, so- Mm-hmm ... sh- obviously she, she did what she could,. But I... Look, I, I actually didn't even stop to kind of think about it, I guess. Not, I don't mean my dad dying. I mean, I think it just, I knew that the f- a- any event, it's like a train coming at you, isn't it?
Like, there are, depending on your lead time, like I'm working on something at the moment that was going to be for October this year, but it's been postponed to October next year which I'm super grateful for. But basically the train hasn't stopped, it's just slowed down and added a few m- more stations.
So-
Sally Porteous: Well, see, I think that's worse. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't, I- I don't know. I've had things that have had [00:18:00] really long lead times, and I've had things that have had really short lead times. And I just feel like I'm stressed longer when it's a longer lead time. And then, like I, I feel, not stressed, but, I feel the pressure.
From the minute the contract is signed, I feel the pressure. Oh, yep. And I start working on it, even mentally. Yep. Even if it's two years away, I'm, I'm working on it. And if I can't move forward, like I've got a couple on at the moment that I'm waiting for decisions so I can't do anything else. I'm just, I wake up every day thinking, "What, what can I do to take the next step while I wait for this information to come?"
So-
Nadine Cove: Yes. What, yeah, what jobs can I preempt in the meantime that- Mm ... I'm going to be... Because the tricky one with the October one was that even though it was a really relatively short lead time I, because I was aware of that, I'd got cracking and put, way more personal weekend hours into it, just to make sure that I felt really comfortable [00:19:00] with where- Yes
we were at. And I then, which is fine, and I'm actually r- I am actually really pleased that we've postponed it, but you've then gotta unwind all that and then- Yeah ... rewind it. So y- yeah, it just, it, I don't, I don't know what's ideal. It's funny actually, because I delivered for the same organisation, I delivered an event where I was hired in October, I guess officially onboarded at beginning of November.
I was given like a working group's wish list that was pages and pages long, and nothing had been put in place, and they wanted to deliver it in February. And I think I'm the only person in the world that actually went, "Oh, thank goodness." COVID- forced me to postpone this. 'Cause I just didn't, I just didn't know how I would be able to satisfy sort of the wish list.
As it turned out, we [00:20:00] postponed to October of that same year, and I delivered kind of like you, although mine was only in one state. But it was a two-day event, and I delivered 94 activations in and around the area into that- Oh, wow ... in the two days. And it was incredible, it was absolutely incredible.
And it was, it landed really, really well. Some things worked better than others. We, we tried lots of things. But largely that was it, very successful. So I was really gla- grateful to be able to- have delivered that-
Sally Porteous: So do you normally work by yourself, Nadine?
Or do you have a, have a team or, or other freelancers or contractors that work with you? What do you-
Nadine Cove: No, ...
Sally Porteous: how do you operate?
Nadine Cove: So when, when I first started years and years ago, I did have a team. And then our family, so my husband and children, we moved a couple of states. And I kind of wound up actually, but events are sort of like [00:21:00] glitter.
They come and
Sally Porteous: find you again.
Nadine Cove: I know. Event- ... organizing. Like, you think you've got all the glitter off you, and then you find a little bit in the I don't know, in-
Sally Porteous: What a great analogy. I love it. Yeah, the glitter is stuck all over us.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. It is. It is. So yeah. I sort of, yeah, continued just to do some events and I'm a very literal event manager.
So if I have a theme or I come up with a theme, then I'm, I just kind of cannot leave any rock unturned any string unpulled. And so I did... So I thought I was getting out of it, and I kind of did it, but I didn't grow a team. And then I got down here and just freelance on my own. And depending on who the, the, well, like, what the event is, then I inherit a team basically.
And so most of the contracting events that I've done have been with festivals down here. So, yeah, I can usually borrow the ops team, and then I'll bring in, There's, like, a [00:22:00] couple of people that I've collected, I guess, along the way that make my job easier, and they're very good at what they do, and I'll just bring them in when I need them.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. Nice. Nice. And so do you prefer that, that way of working, or-
Nadine Cove: Yeah. I think it was- Like, do you think it's a time
Sally Porteous: of life thing or?
Nadine Cove: Oh, look, yeah. I- I don't want to ever live with... try really, really hard to live with no, no regrets. We love the We're the Millers, so no regrets is a real family-
Joke. I
Sally Porteous: love that movie. We're the Millers.
Nadine Cove: Me too. What a
Sally Porteous: great movie, hey?
Nadine Cove: We too. We do too. But we I, so I try, really hard never to dwell. I, I, I don't... If I had've stayed in events I imagine where I might have been, so stayed completely at the level that we were as a company in New South Wales.
But it just wasn't the path. And, there's a [00:23:00] part of me that wonders whether I could've got cracking when I got to Tassie, and sort of recreated that. But I think, it, in all honesty, and I've never really put this in words, but I think the what we had in New South Wales was, like, the perfect storm.
And, there was all these pieces that fit together. And then that wasn't something that I, I for lots of different reasons would've been able to recreate. So- Yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah ...
Nadine Cove: yeah. But I mean, and it's funny actually, because event management a- and I was thinking about this ahead of our conversation, was, I don't know if it was accidental, I don't really...
I sort of started as a GM in a hotel PA. And then often in that time PAs were like, "Well, I'm not really sure what you're doing, but can you organise this?" And then that kind of, snowballs. Yeah ... and that was sort of where I ended up with my start. [00:24:00] But the, I don't think I ever really set out to do event management, but I definitely have never been able to not do it.
Sally Porteous: I mean- Yeah, same, same. I, I, I kind of hung a shingle. I only hung my shingle 2011. So not that long ago. I know it's still a few years ago, but considering I had been, like, I was, in 2011, what's that, 15 years ago, I was 45. So, at 45 I decided what grown-up Sally looked like. And I hu- and that's when I hung the shingle.
But a few years later when I reflected back on every single job I've ever had, I've been the events person in that job. And, and yes, I was a PA for many, many years. And every company I've worked in I have organised the events, whether they be company Christmas parties or strategic planning days or any of that kind of [00:25:00] thing.
I was, it was always me that organised them, and I really enjoyed it. And I still really do love it. I think there's a lot more pressure now though to-
Nadine Cove: Oh, yeah ...
Sally Porteous: there's a lot more pressure on an event organiser now to get bums on seats, and I'm finding that a little bit hard both from a client point of view but also my own, like, personal achievement point of view.
Like, if I do an event and I'm just responsible f- not just, but I'm responsible for logistics, like it's my job to build it and it's the client's job to get people there, and if they don't get people there, I'm finding I feel responsible that they're not getting people there, and I'm sitting there going, "What could I have done?
I could have done more to get people here." But then I have to keep reminding myself that wasn't my job. I'm not an event marketer. But more and more of us, I think, are being asked or expected that we will also drive attendance. Yeah. Do you... How does that sit with [00:26:00] you at, in your festival space where you-
Nadine Cove: Yeah.
Look, festival, festival-wise actually, I'm not... I probably drive that as a KPI for myself in terms- Mm. Mm ... of attendance. So I'm very l- lucky, I guess, in that way. I don't know if lucky is the right word, but just because
Sally Porteous: the- No, that's my point, though. I feel, I feel also that, like, there's two sides to it.
Sometimes the client expects that that's the responsibility of the organiser as well, but 100% of the time I feel like it's my responsibility.
Nadine Cove: Yes. Yeah, yeah, and I completely agree with you in terms of that. And it, I think it is also that blurred line, isn't it, between y- the e- and you see, this with designers particularly.
They might, there might be a job ad for a design manager, but then when you've read through... Like, my girlfriend sent me copies of ads that she's been looking at for possible jobs, and it lists, like, comms [00:27:00] and media and marketing- Yeah ... and and I'm like, she's capable of doing all that, but then they're not her areas of expertise.
Once upon a time she just would've been expected to be briefed and deliver on the, the design, and then another team would've taken on those other roles, and another team would've s- supported them. So there is this definite push, and I think because we've got so many I, I guess, so many assets available to us now to streamline those things, y- you have to wonder- if we are learning to do all the jobs okay, are we losing the expertise as well?
I know that's not quite what you were asking me, but I've often wondered-
Sally Porteous: No, no, I, I agree with
Nadine Cove: you ... about
Sally Porteous: that. And that
Nadine Cove: was part
Sally Porteous: of the discussion actually at, at the conference as well. I was, I was so inspired at that actually by their ability, a lot of people [00:28:00] who talked, their ability to just stick to their job.
Like, just, like, meet a brief and not go outside the brief. Just me- like, they're very clear at, at coming... Like, accepting the brief and then sticking to it. I found that really inspiring, 'cause that's one of the biggest challenges I have. I know scope creep is one of the hardest things for us to- deal with, and it, and it comes from a position of we want the best outcome for everybody.
And, if we can see that that outcome is not going to be achieved unless these things happen, and if no one's doing those things, well, then we'll pick it up. Yes, correct. I think we are, we are, we are masters of everything. I really do. I don't think we're jack of all trades, master of none. I think we are master of all trades and jack of none.
Because everyone I know in this industry are exceptional creators, producers, marketers, [00:29:00] logistics. Like, they're just so good at everything. But I also believe that that has a lot to do with why we tend to get burnt out as well.
Nadine Cove: Oh, yes.
Sally Porteous: And crash and- Yeah, yeah ... and leave- Yeah ... the industry in its entirety.
Nadine Cove: My burnout probably came way ahead of the curve, actually. I remember all I wanted at one stage was... So my expertise was greenfield sites. Greenfield sites are super, super exciting, and particularly when I was younger and had the energy. They were just-
Sally Porteous: So can you tell our listeners, can you tell our li- explain a greenfield site to-
Nadine Cove: Ah
Sally Porteous: to anyone who doesn't know what that is. So
Nadine Cove: literally nothing. There's nothing there except a paddock perhaps, or, so y- anything that you... And these were private events. These were all private events, so not public, open events. But anything that somebody coming to whatever this was, whether it was a, a big party or a corporate had to be shipped in [00:30:00] and made to work.
Oh, okay. It also depended where, we're not talking about kind of, a paddock festival that didn't have a level of, of expectation in terms of its luxury either. So, many of the events were, were very high in terms of expectation of comfort and sophistication, et cetera.
So, it wasn't just a matter of buying a few Portaloos and we were good to go. Nothing like that at all. And I loved it. Absolutely, absolutely loved it. But I did get, every now and then, it's typical human behavior, isn't it? I'd think, "Oh, I'd love a venue. Maybe we should just get a venue."
And then we did end up getting a venue. And I remember, I remember the night, I remember just delivered an event, and it was I'd worked a long time with the organiser. They'd put a lot into it. [00:31:00] And they had actually produced, the, it was an, for an artist, and they'd produced some art that had been inspired by a design that they'd seen.
And we had this as a part of the styling, eh, for the event, which I'll come back to. That's actually... I need to tell you a story about that. But the at the end, staff were saying to me, "Oh, what are we keeping? What, what are we disposing of?" And I remember saying to the organiser, "Can you clarify?"
And they said, "Oh keep one, but otherwise throw everything out."
Sally Porteous: And I'm like-
Nadine Cove: Mm ... I just can't, I can't do events anymore. I remember it- Mm ... so vividly. I just went, first of all, having my own venue, by the way, was the absolutely the wrong thing to do. It was so boring. I, you know- I, I was not inspired like I was a- at any time before.
I love troubleshooting, can we get trucks in, can we get cars in, where's people going to park? I need electricity. Is [00:32:00] that generator going to be enough? Like, the amount of of intel or intellectual property that I have on generators is, like, at that time, like it was just- Yeah.
It did, and you need a backup fuel. And, like, it was just... These are private events too, so we're not talking about at Glastonbury or a- Yeah, yeah ... some big festival in a, a paddock. These were all, all the little intricate things that I just loved to consider. A- all the while not compromising any standards.
But yeah, got, got the venue. Still, I was still doing greenfield site events, but obviously it it made financial sense to be doing events in a venue as well. And, So
Sally Porteous: did you buy a venue or lease a venue?
Nadine Cove: We did, yes. Yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. Wow.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Anyway, I remember speaking to that client that night and I just went, "I can't do this anymore.
I can't. I'm adding to landfill. I feel really sick about this. I don't... I, I just, I found [00:33:00] all of a sudden this overwhelm with regards to waste." And- Mm ... this was right at the beginning of the curve with regards to the movements on leftover event food being refocused, like food waste being refocused into areas where that was needed.
So that, none of those, none of the- or any of those facilities really existed at that time. There might have been one just getting started, but that would've been about it. Mm. We had tried to, to pass on some untouched leftover kitchen prepared food at various stages to like local aged care facilities and that type of thing.
But there was still a, a- and, obviously I respect the safety and you would, God forbid anything would happen that was, would compromise anybody, and that was never the intention. It was always just, that this is just silly to have this waste [00:34:00] and it's just going to go into the bin.
Mostly we would actually give it to a- any of the staff that had animals and they'd take it home with them.
Sally Porteous: Yeah ...
Nadine Cove: so we tried our hardest to make sure, but yeah, I remember this was just going to be landfill and, yeah, I was done. And yeah, that was, that was the beginning of the end for me at that time.
But it's- So what's the
Sally Porteous: styling story?
Nadine Cove: Oh, yeah. So when I was really full on in events, I guess like the logistics, I'm as, I'm e- exceptionally good at thinking of... I, I'm very observant. I, spend all my time, like you would, dotting every I, crossing every T, anticipating, every possibility and how we would deal with that.
And then when I'm faced with something that I just hadn't or couldn't have anticipated calm under fire, have no problem with that at all. But it's actually the styling which is really interesting to tell you that story after [00:35:00] I also told you that I was done with the styling because it was a waste.
But the event styling was really something that I just- that I don't have a regret, but if I was going to have ever continued proactively pursuing at the level in which I was working at that time, events styling would've been my jam. And 100 p- Oh,
Sally Porteous: really?
Nadine Cove: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's
Sally Porteous: the opposite for me.
Like, I really like it. I really love styling a space, but I don't have, I don't have the ability to see it first, then do it. I have to do it and then move things. So, like, if I'm moving furniture around my house, like, I have to move it first and then go, "No, I don't like it there. I'm going to have to move it over here."
And eventually it turns out amazing. But you can't do that on a, in a s- in a, function venue gala. You can't put all the table centers out and go, "No, I don't like the color of that."
Nadine Cove: No. [00:36:00] No. Well, my my ability to visualise and I, I don't think I've lost that at all. Is... I mean, yeah, I'm really proud of it.
Like, I, I think that I can interpret, visualise and transform really well. And funny enough, when I first sort of accidentally ended up in events and I, I w- was one of four organisers in a company and I would obviously do my job to the best of my ability. But the theming and the styling side was always where I excelled more than the other three, and the other three were exceptionally talented, but, they, the...
And they would recognize that as well. My events- Mm ... just went that little bit further. Theirs were great, amazing and great and, expected. Mine were always just that l- left step- outside- Yeah ... [00:37:00] the box.
Sally Porteous: Love it.
Nadine Cove: Love it. Yeah. And I- So
Sally Porteous: tell me, what's, what's your, what's your most favorite event?
The, what's the one that sticks in your mind as your event that you created that you absolutely loved and would do again in a heartbeat?
Nadine Cove: Oh, they're so hard. I, I don't really know the
Sally Porteous: answer. I know. It's like that question. Yeah, it's like the question of what kind of events do you do? I do all sorts. I love your niche.
I love that greenfield niche.
Nadine Cove: I loved- That's- Yeah. I really, really, really loved greenfield. I, look, I did do- Mm ... a really big event with someone who trusted me with a an exceptional level of trust. But even then, and look, the, the event was incredible. And I would need a whole other podcast to talk to you about this event.
But I, even at the end of that, Sally, I still, a couple of days later, because I was, like, beyond exhausted, but I still had things that I had mucked up. Like, I put [00:38:00] the kitchen it was way ahead, at right at the curve of clear marquees. And I put- Oh,
Sally Porteous: yeah ...
Nadine Cove: w- and so we did two structures for the main event.
And I happened to also build a, a village. And I, as I said, I won't even go into it. But the two structures for the main event we actually had to bring in an engineer. And this is a very long time ago. And so the engineer had to help us work out. We had a bridge connecting the two structures as well, so it was just unbelievable.
A bridge off the ground, by the way, so not just a covered walkway. And we did a clear, so one, so it was meant to be kind of the, this contrast of one clear and then one black. And again, black, no one was using black marquees at the time, but we wanted it to go from night to, from day to night.
Sally Porteous: Yeah.
Nice ...
Nadine Cove: but of course I put the poor kitchen in a completely clear roofed tent. And I'm like- Oh ... just baked the, our poor people. I was just [00:39:00] devastated. No. Didn't even think about it, and got swept up in, in the excitement of being able to, to do this event. But yeah, I don't know, actually, if I've really got a favorite.
Because they're, like you said, they're all so different. I think that the- i- they're very hard to compare as well. So, Yeah ... a- and they don't... Sure, big budgets are amazing, but they don't all need big budgets to be amazing either. Yeah. Yeah So yeah, it's a, it's a hard question that I just don't have the answer for.
Some come to mind. So I'm
Sally Porteous: going to ask you another cur- curly question.
Nadine Cove: Okay.
Sally Porteous: Could you give me or give, give our listeners, so, ideally, our freelancers out there, people who are possibly doing this as a side hustle or they're, running a small business and, they're the lead on everything.
What is your top tip for our listeners to, to [00:40:00] have their own success in this space? Like, are you seeing anything currently in the market or currently in the environment where something's missing that, someone can tap into? Or is it business as usual? Do we need to go back to 20 years ago and how we were doing things before?
Like, I'm, I'm kind of reflecting myself on the experience. When we started this conversation, we were talking about the experience one gets when they go to an event. And so for me, I'm, I'm kind of... I, I don't know how many events you go to, but I go to a lot, and I'm starting to find at those events that I go to a bit of a lack of attention to detail on the whole experience.
So yes, they're delivering on what was promised on the flyer, but they're not creating an environment or an experience. They're not taking me out of my day-to-day and [00:41:00] immersing me in their experience. So for me, I think that's some, that's an opportunity for event managers today, is to look back on some of those immersive experiences and understand how you can take your audience on a journey, take them out of their day-to-day life, and really, like, exceed expectations, not just meet them.
That's, I feel like that's kind of missing at the moment. And, and that comes down to costs and resources and all that kind of thing, and I get it. But I, I... That's something I think where people can make a difference for themselves in the market right now. What do you, what do you think? What, what are you seeing out there?
Nadine Cove: Yeah. That sort of transformational i- is challenging. And I think for myself I was at an event recently, and I admired- I ha- well, it was really interesting. I had to keep putting on too... I had to take one hat off and put on another hat. So I try really hard to go to an [00:42:00] event or a, or a whatever it is, an event, a conference, a festival, whatever, and not actually be an event manager.
Because- Oh, good luck. I think that for such a long time being in hospitality, tourism, and events, and being so customer service focused, 'cause that's the era, e- era in which I was trained- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... it's very, very easy to sit in judgment and actually lose sight of the reason that you're, you know, i- at, at this particular occasion, and-
Sally Porteous: Yeah
Nadine Cove: lose the, lose the enjoyment. Not have the full appreciation of the enjoyment of the day or the night or whatever it is. But I think, I kept thinking at this particular one,
there's this really interesting balance that we now have to navigate between risk, risk assessment and the responsibility of the people attending the event for, for being grown-ups and [00:43:00] adults and, and making wise- Yeah ... decisions. And- Yeah ... the event organiser doing everything that they possibly can.
And I've actually got somebody that I... 'Cause one of the events that I work on is kind of high activity. It's completely voluntary though, so you don't pay. It's not like you pay to go on a ride where that- Right ... transaction is contractual. Whatever the contract is, but it is contractual. This one is completely voluntary, and I do have a very sage person who I speak to who's not in events at all, and I will say to him, "Okay, but, should I be worried?
Should I have disclaimers? Should I..." And by... And he'll kind of talk me through. He doesn't say yeah or nay to any of those particular questions, but h- we talk it through, and I'm, I'm really gra- grateful that I've got somebody like him that I can bounce these sort of questions off. Because I, I [00:44:00] feel like, and I don't know whether it's just that kind of coming get, as getting older.
I mean, I remember when I first... I used to fly all the time, like for my job I'd fly everywhere, and I loved flying. Absolutely loved it. And then when I had kids, I suddenly became really anxious flying. Oh. Whether they were on the plane or not, and I'm like, "What's going on? I can't understand this." And then as I got older and I flew on my own and the, and the kids, obviously could not have to go with me wherever I was going and I was flying for work, I, I've relaxed more back into the normal way that I, or the, the way that I was.
Mm. Feeling very safe flying. And I remind myself of, of that particular experience because it's sort of like events too where you can be really cool and casual, and that's probably going to bring you undone. But you can also be, like, super concerned and hypervigilant and hyper [00:45:00] worried about every aspect and then that can bring you undone.
So it's trying- Yeah ... to find that balance I think for me around just that risk aspect in managing events.
Sally Porteous: I really like that you have that person to bounce off. I have a similar process in terms of the tech, the AV, that kind of thing. Because it's not an area that I particularly want to spend a lot of time learning about.
But I also don't like to abdicate decisions. I like to have enough knowledge or at least have had some conversations around things so I know that what I'm being offered is what I need-
Nadine Cove: Yes ...
Sally Porteous: in terms of that space as well. So yeah, I have a little network of, of people that I can call on to go, "This is what my program looks like.
This is the quote I've had from the venue for the AV." Can I... Do I need all of this?
Nadine Cove: Yes.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. Yeah ... oftentimes it's, it's so expensive, and you've got no idea. You've got [00:46:00] no clue whether you need all of those things that are, that are being offered to you. And, and I'm not, I'm not saying venues are trying to gouge people or anything like that, but I'd just like to know what's necessary, what's a nice-to-have, and what's a, and what's a,
Nadine Cove: I
Sally Porteous: can do- What's a, yeah
without this. Yeah. I don't need it.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. And I think from an AV perspective I've, I've got the same, actually different person, but I've got exactly the same, and I'm really lucky. But on the other side of that I also, because of my work with this one particular AV tech, I'm acutely aware of the fact that you can think of everything the client might need from an AV perspective, particularly for a conference where, you know, you despite having, spoken to speakers and presenters a million times before, they still just don't give you what you need until the final moment.
Sally Porteous: No.
Nadine Cove: No. Not, not all of them, but just sometimes that happens. And, invariably it's the, it's the [00:47:00] one person that didn't give you what you needed. They give it to you on the day when you've got a million people who need to see you and speak to you, and they're... what they've given you now provides a tech challenge.
Yeah. And, this is where I kind of... It, it's why it's so important to have trust between your, yourself and your suppliers, and work with sort of, a regular team of people. Because you can then say to them, look, it, they've... you've relied on the fact that they've anticipated, that they may have to throw a different cord in, and they shouldn't have to throw that different cord in without being compensated for their work either.
Yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah.
Nadine Cove: So it's a really in- Absolutely ... interesting navigation around, around that, and I think you can- yeah, like
I am definitely a person who prefers to work regularly with the same people which some rather than be [00:48:00] determined purely by budget. And I know that there are some people who don't have those alliances or those relationships. And, they don't want to build, those relationships with people.
They'll just go, "No, I want a cold-hearted quote." And I'm always really nervous in events with working with someone new particularly for something really high tech. Because you don't know... Like, as much as you know somebody's good at something, and that's amazing, that's what you rely on, you actually also know where they're a little bit not so good as well.
Yeah. And so that's okay too. So, yeah, it's in those relationships are really interesting and really important. And I guess that's probably why I just didn't have the energy to rebuild that, and that's what I knew that I would have to, to do. Which is why it- Yeah ... going back to the beginning of the conversation, I didn't really put myself out there and go, "Okay, I'm here. This is what I'm good at. Who [00:49:00] needs it?" And that's... Yeah, and I just didn't, I just couldn't rebuild that team. I just didn't have the energy for that.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's really fascinating, isn't it? The, the, the... 'Cause I've just, it's just kind of dawned on me that I've got to the point now in my career where I I'm, I'm considering whether I'm self-employed or I have a company or I'm a freelancer.
I'm not sure which, which of those things I am. And each of them has a different status symbol to me. Yeah, I think it's really interesting what we call ourselves. At the end of the day, we're all doing the same kind of work. But so what, what do you call yourself now?
Nadine Cove: Oh. Yeah, I don't, ugh, I don't know actually, because I agree with you, it's tricky to kinda navigate but I guess because I don't put myself out there, I don't really need to have a, a definition. [00:50:00] So I mean, my husband and I have a company, and so f- if I'm invoicing a client, that's what I use. But yeah. And I-
Sally Porteous: Yeah, I'm the same. I'm the same. I have a proprietary limited company.
Nadine Cove: Yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah, that everything runs through.
But yeah, it's, it's interesting, isn't it? It's so interesting.
Nadine Cove: Yeah, and like, in terms of, say, creating a, a profile or of, a, an events business I've, I had kinda been there, done that, so I didn't really think... And now that I've got a, a really strong set of other tools as well, I don't know if I...
If somebody said to me, "Okay, let's start a business. We've got this great space. And, what are you going to specialise in?" I probably I wouldn't do it as an events space. I would purely, I would actually, typical me, I would go way too big, but I would, I, I think I'd have to consider [00:51:00] bringing in all of the other experience that I've got.
Yeah. No ... and bring that tourism, comms, media, hospitality, i- all of it in the- Yeah ... as a f- a full service agency. I think that's probably what I would, if, if I was going to do that, that's how I would do it.
Sally Porteous: Yeah, okay. Wow. That sounds like a lot to me. I think about that sometimes and think, "Oh, gosh, that's, that's a lot of, that's a lot to do."
Nadine Cove: It is. No, it, look, it is. Com- it is definitely. But I, I think that if I was going to do it in another way, I'd probably feel like I've already done that. And for whatever reason, life took me into different, diff- down different- Yeah ... routes. So yeah, if that, yep, 100%. I probably never verbalized that before or quantified that, but definitely that's what I would do, is it would be a full service agency with all of those things.
Public relations and commercial lighting [00:52:00] design are definitely two things that I 100% wish that I had have specialised in as well. So, yeah. We- the, Way too late for me now, but yes.
Sally Porteous: You're never too, it's never too late. Never too late. Oh. But yeah, definitely there, there are things that I, I looked at PR a long time ago and considered kind of entering into that field.
But again, there's so much pressure to deliver results, I think. Yeah ... and they're, they're... You can't quantify results in PR. Like, it's not, whether it works or not I think it's very hard to, I don't know, set a system in place to improve the outcome all the time. I, I know there's good PR people and not so good PR people, but I still, I just think if it was me, I'd feel like I was under so much pressure to get the outcome that was expected.
And of course, I would have [00:53:00] exceptional expectations on it.
Nadine Cove: Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. I often find it fascinating as to why one, one particular reel on social media goes viral. Yeah. So when you look at a- Oh, I know. Agree ... a platform, an influence, generally it's somebody with some, some level of, like some decent level of following.
And then all of a sudden they post this one reel that is completely similar to their other content. There doesn't seem to be anything unique, uniquely different from their content. Uniquely different from everyone else's, but uniquely different from theirs. And all of a sudden they've gone from, 10,000, 20,000 views to 1.3 million.
And I find that- Yeah ... really fascinating that h- what was it in that reel that just resonated with
Sally Porteous: people? So- Nothing. We're at the behest, we're at the behest of the platform. I- There's nothing in the reel. It's all the same. The platform just decided it was going to show your [00:54:00] thing to more people, I think.
Nadine Cove: Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's, it's very, it's a fascinating time. So I definitely agree with you. And look, probably me saying that it would be full service it's way easier than actually making that happen. But yeah, I really don't think that I would open an agency that's was just, I, I wouldn't just hang my shingle out again as events.
Because, I, I moved away from a, from a r- a reason and yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. I agree with you. I think that's a great conversation for us to now share with our listeners. I think we've covered a lot of things in what it's like to be a freelancer in this space, to work in events as an independent professional.
I think we've covered a lot there, Nadine. I think it's going to be really interesting for our listeners. What do you think?
Nadine Cove: I, yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah, and probably there's... We could talk for hours.
Sally Porteous: We could, we could. Yeah. Would you like people to follow you anywhere? Would you [00:55:00] like people to follow you anywhere?
Or you're happy to stay where you are there in, in Tassie and just- Yeah ... waiting, waiting for us to all come visit you at Dark Mofo?
Nadine Cove: Yeah, no, very happy with with status quo. Yeah. Yeah. I know, it seems so... I, I think I just was so ambitious when I was younger that I'm... I don't... Yeah, and then maybe the ambition was a measure of success for me, and I don't need that anymore.
I have a, a beautiful husband, two amazing, amazing children, and a beautiful family, and surrounded by friends and, and I'm actually mostly pretty good at what I do, and I'm pretty happy with that, so.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. No, that's lovely. Sounds like you've, sounds like you've landed in a really nice place, which is great.
Nadine Cove: Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Sally.
Sally Porteous: For anyone that is thinking about freelancing or, or going out on their own, starting a small [00:56:00] business, or they're trying to do it as a side hustle hopefully this episode has helped you. And of course, reach out to us if you've got any things that you want to brainstorm.
So, thanks, Nadine. Really appreciated having you on the podcast and you sharing your experience. And yes, let's have another conversation again sometime soon.
Nadine Cove: Thank you for having me, Sally.
Sally Porteous: While we ended our official conversation here, we continued chatting, and I wanted to add this in as a PS because I think it too is really interesting to continue this conversation. I hope you'll agree, and I hope you'll enjoy
Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely will do. I think this'll be good though. I'll be publishing this. I think there's not enough conversations out there for people to listen in to. I, yeah, I, it was- It rolled out exactly how I wanted it to roll out. So-
Nadine Cove: Perfect.
Sally Porteous: Hopefully you'll be happy with it.
I, well, I think it's interesting to, to [00:57:00] listen in on, on other people's experience. Both of us have a lot of experience. We're a long time in the industry. Imagine your 30-year-old self listening to our conversation. I think you'd find it really interesting.
Nadine Cove: Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree.
Yeah ... and I think that the, the landscape of events has changed huge amount and, that, particularly that risk side, it's just and that governance side. I think all the compliance has been particularly for the, one of the events that I'm working on, this is my fourth one. And the f- I don't really count the first one, although I have in that count.
The first one I had, like, 30 days I think. So really all I did- Mm ... was just make sure it was delivered safely. Yeah ... and then kind of stepped back and went, "Okay, that's-" No, yes, no- Yeah ... yes, wow. Yeah. No way. All that sort of stuff. But- Yeah ... that, so really i- in my mind, this third one coming up at the end of the year is kind of...
It's the fourth one, but in my mind I'm kind [00:58:00] of thinking of it as the third one. First one I started to- Yeah ... the same theme. Second one, obviously I really could see that new vision coming through, and now this kind of third one is just sort of nailing that. But also on my own, limited hours allocated, doing way more.
But, my husband's always saying like, "Why are you putting so much in?" And I'm like, "Oh, it's like high road," like, I've got to feel really proud and comfortable with it. Yeah.
Sally Porteous: Yeah ...
Nadine Cove: even if the client doesn't necessarily have that full expectation. Obviously they want safe, no doubt.
But, Yes ... or they have the expectation, they don't generally have the understanding. I think someone said to me on a working group, "Look, what, what we're thinking is if we cut the budget by 30% for three years, then... But there's no expectation that you deliver to the level that you normally do.
And then we'll ramp it up again." And I, I actually just, very, very [00:59:00] professionally just said, "That won't happen. It can't happen. I've just got bit just spent the last three years building, rebuilding the reputation." Yeah. And the expectation now is that people come and they expect a certain level. You can't communicate with dial back on the budget.
Yeah. No. Like, that's impossible. So I think that that- Yeah ... those extra elements are all very interesting as well.
Sally Porteous: Yes, indeed. Indeed. Loved hanging out with you, Nadine. We'll do it again soon, for sure.
Sounds good. Please stay in touch.
Nadine Cove: Thanks, Sally. Take care.
Sally Porteous: All right. Cheers. Bye.
