[00:00:00]
Today's podcast episode is chatting with Sarah Eaton from OneMusic. Sarah is the manager major events and sport at OneMusic Australia, and she's responsible for overseeing the operations policy and procedural implementation across key business functions.
OneMusic exists to proudly represent music creators and the material they create and own, which is songs and compositions. OneMusic provides licenses for Australian businesses to play the music they would typically hear on the radio, TV and music streaming services, or that you might buy online or in store.
A OneMusic license covers the majority of commercially released music worldwide, and their online portal helps you assess your license requirements and allows you to obtain a license in a few simple steps.
Now, the reason we're talking to Sarah today is because if you like me, have [00:01:00] played music at your events, you might have needed a music license to play that music.
Not having a music license for the music that you play at your event, you may be breaching copyright. And in this podcast episode, I learned that I may have actually breached copyright at some of the events I did this year. So dig in, have a listen. Uh, there's going to be links in the show notes to go and explore whether you might need a license for your particular event.
I was in the music industry, when did I finish the music industry? 2006. So a long time ago, 20 years ago.
And that's when I first came across APRA and Amcos as it once was before. And that's when I started to understand, or I guess be made aware that oh, of course someone needs to be paid for the music that gets created. And at the time I was booking cover bands, [00:02:00] so it was there that I kind of went, oh, what do you mean you're presenting a set list to this organisation? How does all of that work? So it was a really interesting learning curve and one that I had no idea, well, number one, I had no idea that it happened, but it also never occurred to me that someone should get paid.
Yeah. And that, and that's it, isn't it? Because you don't know what you don't know.
And so, like you say, if this isn't your professional, you're not doing events regularly that. How do you know that that's a requirement unless someone tells you so, yeah, absolutely.
And do you think it's, do you think it's a result of, I, I sometimes wonder because radio is free, you know, it's free. Because our streaming services, you know, we can have Spotify and, and music, etc., streaming services that don't cost any money either.
Does that kind of put a bit of wash, I guess over the thought in our brain that all music is free, [00:03:00] that people just created for the joy of our consumption.
I, I think certainly that's an element. Yeah. People, there's probably a, an because of all those free services, an undervaluing of the music.
Yeah. I think, I think that mostly the case. Yeah. I mean, some people obviously value music. And we find that when we talk to people about getting a license, and I'm talking more lower end of the scale, smaller events, that once you explain it to them, they do understand why someone who's created music is a small business and need to be paid for someone using their right. So yeah, people are quite receptive once they learn, but and we do a lot about educating people, but of course we can't reach everyone. So there is, there is some education needed and usually the majority of people appreciate music enough to understand it and then realize there is value and therefore someone should get paid.
How long has the organisation been doing this work for? [00:04:00]
So we are celebrating APRA is celebrating now a hundred years this year. Wow. So there's some big celebrations happening. OneMusic launched in 2019. So OneMusic is an APRA AMCOS and PPCA joint initiative. And so APRA is the Performing Rights Association.
So that's the, the side of our business that look after the people that assign their rights to us. So that's publishers and, and composers and writers. And then PPCA are the company that look after the copywriting and sound recording. And OneMusic is the licensing body that brings those two rights together so we can issue a license that cover both of those rights.
Wow, that's really complicated. And so what is am in the middle?
So AMCOS is the mechanical side of the APRA AMCOS side that looks after the mechanical rights, so that's the [00:05:00] rights in the, like recording rather than the performance rights.
Okay. Australasian Mechanical Copyright Owner Society.
Society, yes.
Which manages mechanical reproduction royalties for songwriters, composers, and music publishers in Australia. So it collects royalties when music works are copied or reproduced, such as vinyl, ah, vinyl CDs or digital downloads.
So how do the artists figure out where they fit in? Or do you contact artists?
So OneMusic covers a wide breadth of licenses. So my role is major events and sports, and I sit within the events licensing team. So we license everything from camel racing in the Outback to the AFL, the Australian Open, Lane Way Festival.
So all kind of events, but OneMusic licenses venues, so retail [00:06:00] shops, hairdressers, gyms hotels, pubs, casinos. So those are very different license schemes. And they're distributed very differently. But in general, a lot of the venue coverage because the administration is quite high on the venue, they're of course not going to be able to tell us every song that is played in their venue. So that would be, that would be a lot of admin work for them. Mm.
Now we do have, music recognition technology devices that we put in some venues that captures that data and that informs our distribution. So those venue license fees are often distributed based on data sets that we have from MRT devices or other data sets that we get from Spotify or, or whether, whereas in my area of the business, especially at the largest scale of events, we collect the set lists from the performers at the event, and we distribute to the works that have been performed.
The promoter of the event is [00:07:00] providing those set lists to us and we're distributing based on the works that were performed.
So you mentioned before football, A-F-L-A-F-L. So does that mean I, I.
I'm not a big AFL fan, but I've been to a few games. I was actually running sponsorship for an organisation that sponsored the AFLW a couple of years ago. So obviously I went to quite a few games and, and participated in quite, quite a bit of that. And one of the things I noticed was each player seems to have a song.
So when they score a goal, that song gets played throughout the stadium. So is that the kind of thing that AFL then needs to remit to you and pay the license for?
Yeah, so AFL take out a license centrally for AFL and AFLW. And they, they're under the sports license and there's three different categories of use.
And so depending on the fixture and how music's used, they report the category. So as an [00:08:00] example, if they're using just background music and it's just as people come in to watch the footy and go out. That would be category one when they're using stings. So a certain song plays when they score a goal you're putting into category two.
There's more featured uses of music. And that category two also covers some live performances. And then when you're looking at the grand finals, where there's a a, a half time concert, you are looking at category three. And so they, they tell us which category of use they've used, and then in that particular license, it's based on the number of attendees.
So is there people in these organisations whose job that is? Like is it part of someone's job or is it just delegated to say the marketing manager or someone like that? Or does someone actually, like, is this a career that someone could actually pursue?
Usually is delegated someone and who it's delegated to does vary.
It's funny that you said marketing because [00:09:00] sometimes it is delegated to the marketing. It often falls on the events team, whether that is someone marketing and events team or the project manager. It can be a lot of work. But we, we tend to work with the, in the example of the AFL work with the AFL and say, well, at the end of the season, give us your attendance numbers, which is something that they have readily available. And then your music use reports, you can give us them as they come in. There are ways of collecting that data. Some they could use music, use recognition technology, or they could collect it manually. That's really up, up to them. But we. Yeah, it's a, it's a different person usually for every license that provides the information.
Of course, with the, with like when you think of a concert, it's the promoter's obligation to provide that information to us. Yes. So, they would provide that to us. And that's
seems quite clear, like, 'cause obviously they're in the business of music.
Yeah.
So when you're in the [00:10:00] business of music or you know, very clearly that the music is a commercial element of your event. Like it's what's driving the attendance, driving the experience. I guess those people know and understand that it is a part of their operations, their financial model. Let's, let's step back a minute into, again, back to these people who are, let's say, doing their annual awards dinner. How does that work for them?
So let's say, i've got an event, I'm in Brisbane, so we're at the Brisbane Conventions and Exhibition Centre. I've got my 500 person annual awards gala for my big major organisation. I have entry music, you know, when people are coming into the venue, I'm playing, you know, background music, I'm playing music whilst they're having dinner, that kind of thing.
I've got walk-on, walk off tunes for the different awards for people. So when I'm playing that and I'm playing it [00:11:00] from, let's say, my device on my phone, and I'm playing it from my Spotify playlist. So that's what I've done in the past before I've set up a playlist in my Google music. How does, what are my responsibilities as an event manager in that particular circumstance?
So as, as the user of the music, your obligation is to check that you have the permissions, so you need those permissions to use that music. That's not to say that you necessarily have to take out the license, but you have to make sure that their permissions are in place. And I say that because. It will depend on your venue. 'Cause if you were in a venue that had a license it, it may cover your event and that venue will report to us and there's nothing further you need to do.
Okay?
If that wasn't the case and the event was in a venue that doesn't have a license, or the license didn't cover your use of music, or as an example.
A Greenfield festival, there would be no venue to have a license. So they're going to need a [00:12:00] license from us. Yes. And, and then we look at the type of event. So we have a whole suite of event licenses that cover concerts and festivals down to more what we would call more general entertainment events. We also have ticketed special purpose performance license, which is for comedy magicians, dance where music is a integral part, but it's maybe not the feature, like you're going to see the dance, but obviously you need the music to go with the dance.
Yes, yes, yes.
So for an awards like you probably looking at, a general entertainment license and you would need to come to APRA or OneMusic and apply for a license, and we'd ask you for some details.
And depending on the attendance, your expenditure on live music, if you had any we would provide you a license. And each license has its own reporting requirements. So we would probably ask you to, after the event, confirm how many attendees were there and. If the fee was more [00:13:00] significant, we might ask you to provide a list of the musical works performed.
And would, so would the venue not cover any of that or do I need to ask the venue?
It, it depends on the venue. So the venue should be able to tell you if they weren't sure. You can come to OneMusic and, and ask if you are, if that venue is, so
my first, so my first port of call would be the venue. And.
Could I confident? Would I like, could I confidently I guess know It's a great question that they know.
I think if you wanted to be confident, you should come to OneMusic and just check your event is covered.
Okay.
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Okay. And look, I'm going to ask you a question that you are going to say.
It depends. But in terms of license fee, are we talking a little amount of money. A lot amount of money. Like what, what should people be budgeting?
It depends.
Yeah. Yeah. I know. It depends. Let's take our 500 person gala again. Let's say we've done it in we've [00:14:00] picked a venue that's not a standard event venue.
They're not going to have a license. It's something that like, it's, it's in a maritime museum or somewhere that. Wouldn't normally hold a music license. Let's say it's 500 people and a and like I described to you before, the walk on, walk off music entrance, exit dinner. I don't have any performers. I'm just using my playlist the whole time.
Is it like a thousand dollars? A hundred thousand dollars?
The, for a general entertainment event, it depends whether using background music. So if it was just simply background music, the rate is something like three nought point nought three six, 6 cents per attendee. And that's, but you say nought point, point nought, three, six, 6 cents.
Per attendee and attendee. And that's for APRA. And then if it was recorded music, so if you are using Spotify or a recorded source, the same again for PPCA, [00:15:00] and that would be per attendee. And then we have a minimum fee of $82.50 for APRA and then for PPCA,
sorry, you have, can you say that again? The second part?
There's a minimum fee amount for APRA or PPCA of $82.50.
$82.50.
Yeah.
And does that cover me just for one event or for the year?
That's for one event. It's for one
event. One event,
yeah.
So $82.50 plus essentially 0.08 cents per attendee, is that right?
It's either or. So nought point, nought three, see 10 attendee. Ah, gotcha. And if it's less than $82.50, $82.50 will be your charge. And that's understood. Understood. And then when you get into more featured uses of music, the rate is something like necess really testing me, nought 0.1 3 6 6 per attendee. So it really depends on, it's, the licenses are quite dependent on your music use and the type of event so [00:16:00] that it does give you that, I guess the, flexibility that you are not going to pay for your awards night, the same as a Live Nation promoter was going to play for that concert because the music use is different. It's, it's not for commercial purposes, it's not the commercial driver, it's not the main focus of your event.
Whereas they would pay a higher fee because essentially people are going to that event for the music because of the music. Yeah. So the different licenses do reflect the different uses and the different types of events.
Okay. That's really good to know though, because I think one of the reasons, I guess people, like, even if they do know about it, if they're not doing anything about it, is the fear of how much it might cost. Right? So when you Google it, so when I looked online, for example a lot of the conversation that I see on social media is coffee shop owners and you know, people who are using it on a repetitive basis, that is an environment [00:17:00] enhancer. So they're using it, I'm guessing they're not category one. They're probably like a gym for example. Probably. Like, it's part of going to the gym. Before we had headphones was music, right? Like we went there because of the music. And they maybe pay a little bit more than .00366 cents.
So the annual licenses that apply to gyms, etc., are not in my remit, but they are very industry specific. So a gym would be the fees for a gym would be reviewed and consulted on within that gym industry for how the gyms use music compared to a coffee shop. So, so again, even though they're different licenses from what I would issue in my team, they're annual licenses, but they're very industry specific and the fees have been driven by the use of music by that industry. And which is why if you go on the OneMusic website, you'll see there's lots of different license schemes. So hotels, pubs, and [00:18:00] casinos would have very different rates to retail or a gym because they use music in a different way.
So what's our first step, Sarah? What's our first step in? So if I'm sitting on your website, what, what's, what's the first place that we should go to? Do I need a license? Is that where I would explore?
Let, so
that's one OneMusic.com au. You've got a great little video on the front page there explaining lots of different things and how it applies.
So the OneMusic website and the get a license button is perfect if you have a venue or a gym or a pub, because that will take you to our portal. You'll be able to put in your details and it'll tell you to the right industry.
If you're putting on an event and you want to check whether you need coverage or you wanna apply for a license, there's a license tab at the top of the website and that, yeah. Brings you to a page where all the different [00:19:00] categories of licenses are there. So you'll see, ah, adult entertainment clubs, dining, film screenings, and you can pick the one that applies. And if you click on events you'll be able to find our info guide and then scrolling down, there's a license application which takes you to a form you can submit to us. Someone will review it and come back to you and say, yes, you need a license, or you're covered by the venue.
Okay, that's really interesting.
So. It doesn't talk about, yeah, it doesn't talk about price or anything there though, does it? So
if you look at each, each license category should have an info guide. And I think the, oh yeah, download the
information guide.
The fee should be in there. And I think there's also on all the different categories like hotels, retail, you'll be able to find the actual license agreement, which will have all the more detailed terms and conditions, and we'll have rates in there.
Excellent. Well, I will download that as well, and I'll add it to this podcast episode [00:20:00] so people can, jump in and grab that and have a look for themselves to see if it's something that applies.
I guess the thing we wanna share though, isn't it Sarah, is that don't be fearful of making contact. So we absolutely want musicians to get paid for what they create.
It's probably not going to cost the event organiser a million dollars. Because I think that's probably the perception, I know it's a perception that myself and my colleagues have had is that you know, you read the stuff online, you go into Reddit and you start reading some stuff in Reddit, which is coffee shop owners or restaurant owners or concert promoters, and you're like, oh my God, this is costing me going to cost me a million dollars.
Now how do you find, how do you find out about events and this kind of thing? So what if I'm someone who, who doesn't do this. I hold a regular event. Let's say I do an event four times a year. I have my Spotify playlist that I use four times a year. I should be paying for a license, but I'm not. What are the [00:21:00] consequences?
Well, the consequences are that you are infringing copyright, so you could be sued for infringement. Is when you don't have those permissions to publicly use music, you're infringing the copyright of each of those artists. In theory OneMusic could sue you for not having those permissions. The likelihood is low because we wouldn't come to and sue you.
We would say, you need a license. We give you the option to take out that license. And we do conduct compliance. So we do go out and see who's using music and check people have licenses in the event space, we research what events are going on so that we know what we need to license, and we have established relationships with music users that come to us for applications.
And there is an element of education. The OneMusic team do, do some education to try and get the message out there that if you are using music, [00:22:00] come to us and see if you need a license.
Yes, yes. Yes. How do you encourage people to do so? How do you, what is your pitch to kind of, I guess raise awareness and yeah, like just encourage people to engage in the process.
Do you have. Like an engagement strategy? I guess
I, I think that's probably a, a question for the wider OneMusic team because I think I'm lucky that in the event space, like you said, that there is more of an understanding of the value of music. Generally these people are using music as a choice to put on their event and be a feature of their event in their, the kind of venue, annual licensing space.
It is a matter of educating them and, and explaining that. These music creators are businesses and they put a lot of time and effort and money into creating this music that we then use and enjoy, [00:23:00] and they deserve to be compensated for that creation. And, and that's where your license fee is going. We're not were, profit for purpose business. So it's not like we're taking your license fees and profiting of them. They're going back to the creators of that music. So you're supporting people and enabling them to make music going forward.
Yeah. That's great. I, I love it. I think it's, it's great. Is it, so you look after Australia?
Yes.
Yes. What happens around the rest of the world? So this, the podcast is listened to internationally. So I guess I just wanted to share with anyone who's outside of Australia how they may, like, what do they look for in their own location?
Absolutely. We have, reciprocal agreements with societies all around the world.
So the UK for example, the society's called PRS, and they do similar to what we do. They look after the performing rights. So if you are putting on an event in the [00:24:00] uk, you need to be checking that your, you've got the permissions. Now, how they manage those rights may differ from country to country.
But if an Australian artist goes to perform in the UK, PRS will license it, and then the money comes back to us and we distribute it to that Australian member who's a member of APRA. And likewise, when International Artists tour here, we'll license the event and then we pay that money to their society who will pay onto their members. So it's a, it's a network of societies, which means that when we issue a license, it's the vast majority of like commercially released music that you are being given permission to use. Yes. It's, it gives you great coverage because of that agreement of the societies all around the world.
Okay. Excellent, excellent. Is there anything that should be done post-event? So let's say for example some of us as event organisers, we are [00:25:00] agencies or we are freelancers and we work for other people. And I know myself, for example, I've been in a situation where I've been working for someone as a freelancer. They've decided to pop a Spotify list on, and I've asked the question and they've gone, oh no, we don't worry about that.
And it's not, I'm not really in a position to push the issue. What should event organisers do in that situation? Anything? Is there anything that we can, like if we, if like I care about it, I want artists to be paid, can I, can I come to you post event and kind of go, Hey, here's something that you might wanna explore or
you can and we would, is there like
a dob in an
event?
There isn't a do in an event, but you could come to us. There is limited you can do because it. There's limited compliance we can conduct and, and we do do com quite comprehensive compliance and we will target a certain area and if, if someone's [00:26:00] known to be a repeat offender of not taking out adolescents, then of course we are going to have more eyes on that business or that event.
Yeah.
But there is limited, it, it, the, whoever's using the music, the obligation is on them. And. We would like to think they would be a big music citizen, good music citizen, and come to us and, and get that license.
Yeah. So there's an, there's, there's something that's led to a question I wanted to ask you.
Oftentimes in my experience, the AV team will run a Spotify playlist. So again, I've overheard people in the past, I've overheard clients in the past say to the in-house AV team, oh, can you just put a Spotify playlist together for the walk-in music for when everybody arrives? And they're like, yeah, sure, no problem.
So would we be correct in assuming the AV team has been educated and they know that their venue has the license to be able to do that? I'm talking like big brand [00:27:00] venues.
I, I'm not sure how educated they would be on the venue license and obligations, but whoever's authorising the use of music, so if the person who owns the venue or the person putting the event says ,yeah, put a Spotify, you are authorising that use, so you are the one who's obligated to make sure you have the permission.
So I wouldn't say that the AV team would be responsible for the license. Now, it would be great if they said, well, if you, if we are going to use this, are you sure you have a license? But as the event organiser or the venue, you, you still are authorised in that use whoever you tell to press play.
Yeah.
You are still, you are still authorising that use.
So, let's think about some other scenarios. I held a networking event, for example, at the beginning probably about March last year. And I engaged a DJ to come and perform. It was in a cafe. The venue [00:28:00] was a sponsor. I paid the DJ though to come and perform.
Who would have the license in that scenario? Should I have checked?
Yeah, I would say if you were hosting the event and you were authorising the DJ to play, then you should, you should be the one checking that you've got the permissions now, the cafe. May have a license or should have a license if in their general business they're using music regularly.
But that license might not cover your DJ because a cafe wouldn't often depending on the cafe, might not often have live music. So their license might cover their background music and then you are putting live music, so you might just need a casual event license to cover the use of that dj.
Wow. Okay.
'cause I'm just thinking of another scenario. I did a series of activations recently. And, and at each of those activations, they were in cafes. They were in eating establishments, [00:29:00] and I had a live performer at each of those events. So again, I should have, I should have checked on the licensing right?
Check the venue had coverage for the The use of music? Yeah,
for the use of a perform, but, but a different kind. Right. A different category, not just background.
Yeah. You would, yeah, you would need to know that, whatever, if they held a license, whether it covered what you were using in your music.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that leads me to another question. So let's say I do these kinds of events all the time, which I do, I do them quite often. Can I get an annual li annual license as an event organiser? No. I have to have one every time.
We, we license on an event by event basis.
Right.
It, it could be if you were having your events in the same place, it could be that the venue wished to take out an annual license.
Yeah, that would be unlikely because it's not their cost. They're not going to wanna make. So it would be event by event. If you were, if you [00:30:00] were doing a series of activations, for example, we could license them together for you. So it would be. We'd calculate the fee on a event basis, but we can, we can do things that make the admin smaller for you by like, okay.
In the same way that we would license a tour, we'd issue one license for the entire tour, but the fee would be calculated per event.
And then, so just operationally, let's talk about the ones that are the activations where the performer plays. I would need to get the set list off the performer and submit that.
It depends. Okay. My favorite answer as a general rule, if your fee is going to be $300 or less, we generally don't ask for set lists because that's quite a, a lot of work for you as the promoter. And then we all look to distribute it via our distribution pool. So using other sources of data. Whereas [00:31:00] once you get over that $300, especially if it's a live performer, we really want that money to go to the works that have been performed at your event.
So we would then be asking for set lists
And the performer, would the performer not submit and a set list themselves at any time. That's from my memory, that's what used to happen a bit. They, the performer had to, 'cause often it was their own songs in that set list as well, that they wanted to get paid for performing their own songs.
Yeah, absolutely. So what happens is, if you are an APRA member, and I say, I perform at your cafe and I've written my songs, I would go and submit my LPR report, live performance report, and I'd tell APRA these are the 10 songs that I've played, and they would pay out a per rate for that performance. Yes. And that's for those fees under 300.
When we're directly distributing the fees to the set list, it's a different method of distribution. So you don't need to submit the live performance report because you've [00:32:00] submitted a set list and we're going to pay you out that way via the set list. And it usually results in a higher fee per work than it would through the live performance report.
Okay. Alright. Gosh, it sounds so complicated.
It, it is complicated, but I assure you that once you get your event license, we make it as simple as possible for you.
Oh, good. Okay. So step one then. Yeah, I'm just, I'm, let's just have a quick look at, you pose some really great questions here. So I pay performers, I don't need a license as well, and you've said that's false.
There's often a a misunderstanding that if you are paying someone to perform, that's it, you're covered, 'cause you're paying them, but you're actually just paying them to perform the music. You're not actually paying them for the permission to use that music. And, and why that's important is because in your example of the cover band, you are paying the cover ban to perform and they're all taking their $200 and going [00:33:00] home with it.
The songs they're using to entertain whoever they're entertaining, might be written by 20 different composers, writers, publishers, and, and they need to be compensated for the use of their works. 'cause these people are performing their works and they're providing a performance and that's worth money too. But they're profiting from other people's works and we just need to make sure that the permission for those works is going back to the people who write the works.
Mm mm I love it. I love it. All right. I don't need a license. Is as artists are playing their own songs, false.
False. If a artist is an APRA member or a member of any reciprocal society you need permission so that there are ways that a member can license back their works and not require a license. But in general if they're performing, you need a, a license.
Okay. Excellent.
My event is free. I don't need a license. False. [00:34:00]
Interesting. Yep. We get this a lot. I, I can understand this being raised as a question because people are thinking if I'm not doing it for commercial purposes. Then why am I paying the license fee?
But again, you still need the permissions. You're still choosing to use music in a public, in a, as a public performance. So you still need those permissions.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
We are a not-for-profit organisation. We don't need a license.
Same, same thing. You still need those permissions and those permissions come under the license.
So that's interesting, isn't it? Because I think. The confusion possibly comes in there because as a not-for-profit organisation, for example, you don't need a liquor license for a community event where, where I am in Queensland anyway. I don't know where it, where else that that rule applies, but I know where I am in Queensland, there's different rules and regulations for liquor licensing, which you would think would be far more hefty than music licensing.
So I guess an, an [00:35:00] assumption people make, right? Yeah,
I think, I think so. Yeah. And not for, not-for-profit organisations would have different regulations, so it, it's not, it's understandable that they would question whether they needed a license, if they getting free licenses in other areas.
Yeah. Alright. I, I think we answered this one earlier, but I have a streaming service subscription. I don't need a license That is false.
It, it's probably the most common. Common response we get. I'm paying for Spotify, so I've paid, but, but you, you're paying for domestic use of that service and you're not, you need to pay for the public performance rights.
Oh, what? Isn't there a Spotify for business?
There is a Spotify for business yes
do so it's not covered in that either.
So general Spotify, if you read the terms of conditions is for domestic use only. So. Legally, you shouldn't be using your domestic Spotify in a [00:36:00] public place. Okay. So a business or an event.
Okay. Issue number one.
Spotify for business is saying you can use it in your business.
But those things are just access to the subscription. They're not giving you the public performance rights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. Gosh. Okay.
Venues cover the music licensing for all events. That's false.
Yeah, and I think we've touched on that, that yeah, many, many venues have quite comprehensive licensing.
So a lot of music venues would have licensing that would cover all sorts of events and. The councils also have a license that covers certain events up to a certain threshold. So venue, co venue coverage is quite comprehensive in some areas, which is why you're probably best to come to us and check because it may have a license and it may not cover your event.
Yeah, so I think that sounds like the best strategy rather than asking the venue. 'cause then my next question was, well, do they have a certificate? [00:37:00] Would I like insurance? For example, I would go out to all of my vendors and say, can I please have your certificates of currency to prove that you are insured for X activity?
I'm guessing venues don't have a certificate per se, that they send out to prove that they have No,
no, and I mean, venues. In, in your convention Centre example, it, the person you ask would depend on the answer. There might be a license put in place with the, the head of finance and the person you are asking may not be aware of that.
No idea. So it's not always easy to know,
How long does the process take? So from the time I'm popping an inquiry and saying, Hey, I've got this event, here's the intention of the music section of this event, how, what's the turnaround time for someone coming back to me to say, yes, I need a license, or, no, I don't, and how much it's going to cost?
Generally within a few days, we should be able to get back to you. Obviously, [00:38:00] if we have a high volume of inquiries, it might take a little longer, but within a few days, we should be able to review your event and tell you whether you need a license and explain the likely fee and, and the reporting. You may or may not need to provide.
Okay. And if I'm brainstorming an event, like is it okay to go, Hey, I am thinking about creating this. So for example, I'm creating a dinner that will have a live performance component to it. It's on private property. Well it's, it's on private commercial property. Is that the kind of thing I could submit an inquiry and
Yeah, absolutely.
We're, we're happy to help with budgeting. The, the fact that people are being proactive about it is something that we would encourage. We just need to know certain, certain details. Like you say, we'd need to know the venue because if we don't know, we can't tell you whether one and there'd be a a certain level of detail needed.
So. Are you using live performance, background music? What are your estimated ticket sales? If you wanted that level of fee [00:39:00] estimate?
No. I'm going to drop a little fear in here, Sarah. Okay. Because one of the things from my memory of back in the day was like I would be a little bit fearful now if I wrote to you and said, Hey, I am going to do this thing in this venue, and then they didn't have a license at all, and all of a sudden I've dobbed them in for not having a license.
Would that ever come back to me? Like that, that, I guess that's kind of one of the things where I'm like, if I was to say to the venue owner, oh, I've checked in with OneMusic we're going to need a license for this, blah, blah, blah. And they just like freaked out and went, oh, what'd you do that for?
They're going to be knocking on my door and making me pay a million dollars for a cafe license.
We, we certainly don't use inquiries to then, then contact contact venues.
Okay.
In an ideal world, that venue would come on our radar at some point, [00:40:00] and we'd be contacting them if we knew they used music, but we wouldn't use your query to go to the venue.
And we might, if a venue had a license and, they were regularly using live music and they perhaps didn't have the live music tariff. Maybe their business had changed and they needed to update their license. A team might reach out to them to say, you are under license. But again, it wouldn't be on the back of your query. It would be on the back of our own research and reassessment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Gosh. Yeah, just interesting approaches, I guess when you're trying to keep everyone happy. How, yeah. How you would navigate the politics of that. Mm mm Interesting. Interesting. So, can you tell me what's your favorite, what's one of your favorite stories of a, of a music where music performing rights have been applied?
Is there some great. Win or success story, particularly for the artist. I think we, what we haven't really touched on is how valuable this [00:41:00] is to the artist and how motivating and how it, it keeps their work coming. Is there, have you got a little story that you can share of?
Great question.
Even when someone has come to you and gone, I'm so pleased that, you know you exist.
I was at a conference recently. I was at the Australian Festival Industry conference, and, and I, I can't remember who it was now, but they came up to me and they said, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for what you do, because I know how, how there's a lot that goes on behind the scene to make sure our members get paid.
I think there's often a misconception that a lot of the royalties. Like that. All the money is going to the top artists. The Ed Sheerans the Taylor Swifts and you know, there's an element of truth in that because their music is used a lot and it generates a lot of revenue. But we, we pay members who are performing at small venues and are hotels and pubs and we're helping them have a [00:42:00] career in music and continue to write music and, and that to me is the important thing.
I come from an artist management background. I was in the UK and you see the royalties coming through and that's actually helping those artists sustain their careers like that. They rely on this revenue and we, we know from all the stories in the news, it's, it's hard to make money from creating music and.
And so if we can ensure that they're getting the money they deserve, I think that's a pretty important thing.
Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's, I agree with you. I think it's great work. I love now that you know, on the social media, they're picking up copyright music. Google, you know, is picking up copyright music and, and essentially applying it or not applying it. As well. So it's nice to see that it is happening. It doesn't happen enough, of course.
Well, Sarah I think we'll leave it there. That's, that's excellent information for people listening to this podcast. Do you have any final words, any key message that you'd like to [00:43:00] share with listeners? So any particular little nugget that you'd like to go out far and wide.
I think I would say that for the sake of yourself and avoiding potential infringement and for the sake of musicians being able to continue making music, a license is a pretty simple thing to do and to check that you're covered it's quite easy.
Yes. And it seems quite affordable. Like, when I'm talking about the size of events that kind of, I'm talking about even 500 people, you know, 500 people at 8 cents a person for a category OneMusic.
It, it's, that's not
very much.
It's very flexible on your music use and the type of event. So there is a fear, and I understand it and I understand budgets are tight but we're choosing to use music 'cause it adds value. So I feel like the license value is relative to that, [00:44:00]
but also my perception was that it was thousands of dollars. That was my perception that, that
I, yeah, and I, I think that's probably quite common and. Some of the license fees are thousands of dollars.
Of course, of course. Yeah. Yeah, of course. But be a smaller event.
Yeah.
It's The fear factor should be lower. Yeah. And you can come and ask us before your event, and we can tell you what the license fee is and if that affects how you use music, then at least you, you know. And the more you know the, the more choices you can make based on the outcome of the fee.
And I love that you shared that the risk really is breaching copyright. 'cause nobody wants to do that. Like we have copyright across our written work. Performers theater, dance, like there's copyright everywhere. So there's no reason I think that music copyright shouldn't be treated in the same way.
Right? Absolutely. We wouldn't plagiarize someone's written work.
No.
So why are we, why is it, why do we think it's okay that we can just play someone's music commercially [00:45:00] and not remunerate them for it?
It's all about permission. And the license gives you the permission, so yeah,
it does. And I, I think we should be doing that more and more across. So many other things, including music, so Well, thank you Sarah. Thank you. It's been so enlightening. What a great chat. People can go to your website, which is OneMusic.com au, so O-N-E-M-U-S-I c.com au.
And from the homepage, well if you know what you're doing, you can get a license straight away. Otherwise under get a license, you can click on Do I need a license? Which is quite handy. And yes, that little video in there is great too. The little video you've got there explaining it explaining why it's important, which is great.
Well, thank you Sarah.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sarah and learning all things about music copyright for your events. If you have any questions, of course you can write to me, but also check out [00:46:00] the onemusic.com.au website where you'll find all the information you need to discover whether you need a music license for your event.
So keep in touch and I'll see you on the next podcast. Cheers.
