Petra on Sally's podcast
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Sally Porteous: [00:00:00] welcome everybody. Uh, it is my absolute joy and pleasure to introduce you to Petra Zinc Today. Petra is a brand and business growth strategist. Keynote speaker and author who specializes in helping executives and founders turn their expertise into authority assets that scale.
Petra is the founder of Impaccct and the 360 Talent Co, where she works with leaders and organisations preparing for succession, exit, or board opportunities. She's also the host of the Trusted Authority Podcast and author of Trusted Authority from Unknown to Known. Her work is all about building authority capital, the systems, frameworks, and trust assets that move leaders beyond visibility into lasting influence.
Welcome Petra. Thank you so much for having this conversation. I'm pretty excited to have this chat with you today. I would like to firstly begin by acknowledging the traditional [00:01:00] owners of the land on which I am on at least, and you are welcome to do so, in the region that you are in as well. For me, it's the Juggera and Turrbl people, and I acknowledge, uh, elders past, present, and emerging.
So today, Petra and I are going to have a little bit of a, co podcast interviews. So, um, I'm going to chat with Petra first and then she's going to chat with me and hopefully we make it super efficient so you get two nuggets of gold that collide, right? That's what we are looking for.
So Petra and I met quite a few years ago now realizing our last conversation on LinkedIn was, what did you say, 15 years ago? 2010. Oh my gosh. So long ago. So long ago. But we we actually met when we were working for a government authority kind of in the same team. We didn't really work together per se, did we? Um, my memory is, uh, quite blurred from that time. But [00:02:00] we were sort of in the same team working on the same kinds of things, but we didn't really kind of spend a lot of time together.
Is that right?
Petra Zink: That's right. We worked on rolling out the different payment systems, so I was part of going out and promoting it and developing one of the go cards. And at the same time, there was the option to pay with cash and then get rid of that. And yeah, it was a big events focus in terms of educating the community, putting flyers together, but also developing the product and getting feedback. So yeah, big blur for sure.
Sally Porteous: Yes, was a big blur. Hey, for me, and I'll probably talk about it with the questions from you, but that was actually quite the catalyst in my career that, that that not only that job but the project that we worked on as well. So it was quite a catalyst for me.
So the question we have for you first up is you've had quite the journey from when we first met all those years ago at that government authority, and I really admire the growth in learning that [00:03:00] uh, you've exhibited along the way. So when I dug into your LinkedIn, and, and I love doing this, I love stalking people on LinkedIn and, and, and just kind of exploring, whether they've done the same thing over and over again or what kind of, not necessarily certifications they've had, but what have they learned along the way?
And I really love hanging out with people that are into growth, that are into sharing things that are moving us forward. They're moving us in a forward direction. And so you've clearly done that along the way to stay relevant and of value. What do you think is the most valuable action you have taken to date that has brought you to where you are now?
Petra Zink: I thought about that question and the only answer that I have is embracing those sliding door moments. Like when we met, I was in brand and product marketing, and at that stage I was thinking, this is my one and only career. Little did I know that two jobs later, that was the end of that chapter and the start of a completely new chapter.
[00:04:00] So I shifted from brand and product marketing, which I did at that stage for 12 years, into tech recruitment. So it's not only a different industry, but also a different profession. So I did 180 change with no experience and no education, because I wasn't trained for that or anything like that. But that was the catalyst for everything that came after that.
And even though I never planned it, because you don't become a recruiter, it was the the change for the next part. With that said, when I look back, the very first change that actually got then the ripple effects, uh, results from there was when I became a group fitness instructor at the age of 16 and I changed the Austrian law that also 16 year olds could actually teach, not only do the education and because I was such a shy kid and I couldn't communicate, and I was literally, you didn't even notice me in a classroom.
It completely changed the way how I motivate people, how I speak with them, how [00:05:00] I learned that you need to create bigger movements because if you give a hundred percent, people give maybe 50%. So you need to give 150%, that they give 75% and small things like that that I learned then to translate into my facilitation and, uh, training and teaching career.
So it was just those sliding door moments that when you look at it, nothing makes sense. They're all random pieces in history, but looking back, as Steve Jobs said, it all makes sense and now it's our turn to make sense of that for our audience and turn it into a story that they can relate to.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. So do you think, do you think that's there's benefit there and how you can do that for others? So when people tell you their story, you are able to help them connect what that journey was for them and how to turn that into a story?
Petra Zink: A hundred percent because I truly believe we are in this pattern recognition era. So it's not just, I've got 10 experience here and I've got those, these degrees here.
Nobody cares. It's already [00:06:00] outdated. But what have you learned along the way? What are those soft skills and those experiences that you've picked up along the way that you can then translate into whatever is next? So I've worked with lawyers who've never practiced law in their lives. But what we've identified is they know how to turn something very complicated in something very simple.
They know how to read between the lines to actually identify what it means and so forth. So we've just made sense of that skill that they've developed. Clearly, they've got the degree, but we are just applying it in a different context. And often I say you can't see the forest for trees because you say, oh, everyone can do it.
Or it's easy for everyone because it's easy for you, or you've just done it forever in two days. But for others it's like. The best thing on this planet.
Sally Porteous: You know, here's the thing about that too, I think and, and for who's listening and watching, we are going to talk about AI today as one of the, the, the catalyst for our conversation was a post that, you put up in relation to ai and I think connecting it [00:07:00] to what you're just saying there, if I was to put my resume or my LinkedIn link, for example, into Manus or into another AI tool, and I asked it to tell me what transitional skills I had and to frame a story of my life, for me, it wouldn't be able to do it.
It takes someone like you to, uh, like you don't, you don't have the right questions to ask it. Right. Whereas you know the right questions to ask human to human because you need to draw the emotion. You need to be able to go, Hey, wait, stop. Let's dig into that a bit. I saw your eyes glaze over, I saw your face go red.
Or you know, I saw you got goosebumps or you teared up, you know, that kind of thing. So I think it's really important that those conversations that you have, have to be with a human. They can't, they can't be with AI if you really wanna make an impact. Would you agree with that?
Petra Zink: A hundred percent because you cannot fabricate the emotion and the story that's connected. But also often it's also an [00:08:00] underlying lesson learned that because ChatGPT doesn't necessarily think critically or any kind of AI tool, it just gives you the answer straight away. It doesn't necessarily ask you clarifying questions.
And or doesn't pick up on your body languages to, you know, I, I simply can't remember when blah, blah. And all of a sudden you're lighting up, you wanna go deeper there. Why did that even happen, and how did it come about? And what did you do next? So it's, you know what Michael Bungay Stanier always says in the Coaching Habit, stay curious for a little longer. And this is exactly what brand strategy is all about. And I say brands are built on truth, not on trends.
So just because a training story, how to go from six to seven figures in 24 hours doesn't mean it's your story. It doesn't mean that it resonates with people. So even if everyone else goes viral with it, your audience thinks you're just a douchebag. What are you doing here?
Sally Porteous: My favorite, my favorite thought now when I see that whole seven figure and six figure is that you can have seven zeroes and you can have six zeroes.
Yes. [00:09:00] Spot on mean you're going to have a lot of money in the bank, but yes, you're absolutely right there. You're absolutely right. I've lost my little bit of paper. Here it is. On, on. Um. On that conversation with Michael, I listened to that podcast episode that you did with Michael Bungay Stanier, and gosh, he's so insightful, isn't he? He's really insightful. I've listened to his episodes with Leanne as well. I've, funnily enough, I've not actually gone and listened to his own podcast. I must do that. I must do that.
But in that conversation with him, you had, in terms of keeping your brand promise and I'll just put a caveat here and share with the audience that you and I both love AI, right?
We are all for it. We are not here to tell you not to use it or, uh, any of those things. I don't know about you, but I've been using it since Leanne talked about it. Leanne Hughes talked about it maybe two years ago. Maybe less whenever ChatGPT first launched. [00:10:00] I started playing then and I spend way too much money on AI uh, subscriptions.
Petra Zink: Same here. I registered because I remember we went to Austria and it was December, 2022, and I heard about this ChatGPT and I was like, this is weird, but I'll just put my fake email address in there because I don't want it to get all my data and information. Like, was the level of trust that I had in it.
None. Um, and then I was addicted from maybe February onwards at the paid subscription or whenever it came out straight away. And I'm also invested in the AI business. Like it's very much, it is the future. And you know, there's a saying, if you can't beat them, join them. And let's be honest, whether we like it or not, AI is here and it's going to be completely changing how we work, where we work, with whom we work. So instead of just saying, oh my God, this is, you know, destroying world, the world.
When digital marketing came out, honestly, it completely made my [00:11:00] skillset that was so much in demand and when we met, this is why this was my very first job in Australia because nobody had that experience. I could get into this market fairly easily compared to others.
And marketing is obviously a very competitive space. And then if not even five years later, I was completely irrelevant because digital marketing became a thing, and my background is trade marketing and brand and product marketing. So same with ai, just saying, oh no, you know, it's too complicated. It's, I don't know what it actually is. It doesn't mean it doesn't make you more relevant or more valuable.
Yeah. We have to walk
Sally Porteous: beside it don't, we, we have to walk beside it. And, and then the key thing that I took out of listening to that podcast episode was, what your brand means. And I loved this so much because I do, I really struggle with the word brand.
And look, I've ha I've been through a branding exercise. I worked with an amazing couple of people who helped me bring all of my company visuals together, I like [00:12:00] to say. And it did actually create a brand, 'cause it does tie it all together and, and what I call things do mean different things. So I kind of, I did dig deep into when I named Red Lanyard as to why I named it Red Lanyard, um, that kind of thing.
And so this organisation was fabulous in bringing my brands together and creating a cohesive look and story. So the brand guidelines that they created for me, like I had no idea they were going to do all this amazing work and they did do incredible work, but I still really didn't. Like brand, the word brand didn't really mean anything to me.
But listening to that podcast episode and when I think it was Michael might have said it, and you obviously agreed and knew, but it was about keeping your promise and even the simple act of a chocolate bar, not keeping its promise, like you assume that you're going to get this thing when you buy the chocolate bar, every time you buy it, you get the same thing and then all of a [00:13:00] sudden it's different.
I think for me that was when Mars changed their packaging and I know, like I know they've done it for a good reason. 'cause it's more sustainable packaging or environmentally friendly packaging and the inside product is no different. But every time I look at it, I think, oh. Oh, and it's just completely changed my desire to yeah, to want a mars bar for some reason, which is weird.
But I loved that you both said what brand means your brand is keeping your promise. And so what I wanna talk about really briefly, um, something I've noticed is the copy, the marketing copy that is going out with events. Is very well done. I don't know, you know, I can't tell if AI's writing it or not, but what I feel like is happening in some spaces.
There's one conference being promoted at the moment. It's [00:14:00] a marketing company, runs this conference and they are very, very, very good marketers. Like they are exceptional market marketers. The trouble is their product that they deliver is not, I went to it last year. It wasn't great. It was fairly substandard experience.
Luckily it wasn't a huge investment. I didn't spend a, you know, it wasn't thousands of dollars. It was, you know. $500, something like that, which is still a lot of money. Um, but it was my own hometown, so I didn't, you know, I didn't have accommodation in airfares and all that kind of thing. What I'm seeing though, and what kind of happened to me, because I use AI to help me write my copy better, because as you can probably tell, I talk a lot.
I write the same way. I write my copy, it's far too long. It's not succinct enough, and so I will use AI to help me craft better messaging that gets across more effectively and I have to go back and check that message to make sure it didn't make [00:15:00] promises I wasn't prepared to keep or had no idea of the promise that I'd made.
So I feel like people are using AI to write their messages, and then they're just popping it into their ticketing platform, their social media, et cetera. But then when it comes to delivery, they had a, their concept of delivering was nothing like what was written in their copy.
Do you, are you kind of finding that in, in terms of when people are writing their story, when they're applying for jobs, when they're, or not applying for jobs, but you know, when you are in your recruitment side of your business, that kind of thing. What, how do we, how do we help people, I think is my question. Ensure that the message that is being crafted on their behalf is authentic. I
Petra Zink: I love this question, and you probably addressed one of the biggest misunderstandings, what it actually takes to build a brand that resonates because you [00:16:00] explained the visual and verbal identity, so your brand style guide and the the logo and so forth.
Now that's marketing already, so it's bringing your brand to life. The brand strategy, and this is what I always call the unsexy work, is intangible, and you can't actually see it, but this is where your brand promise is actually clarified. Meaning what is it that you stand for? Why do you exist? What's your purpose?
Who do you want to serve? What problem do you ca can you solve? So these are the questions that you usually don't have an answer straight away, and this is why everyone hates doing that work, but they wanna go straight into, but the green palette looks amazing. We should go with green. I was like, why? Just because it's a trendy color. It's your favorite color, doesn't make it a good palette for your brand.
And this is where people often go straight to the marketing because it's this immediate result. It gets the endorphins going and haven't actually done the boring questioning, creative thinking, going deeper, sometimes also opening wounds that you kind of shut off. But this is exactly the valuable story [00:17:00] that you can then bring to life through marketing and your assets.
So when I say my values are integrity, honesty, perfection. Really. Based on what? Based on every other company that has it on their wall and doesn't mean anything to them. So clearly you have not done your homework. So we can actually fairly easily test it. Whereas if I say speed is one of my core values, how do I show it? You get a response within 12 hours or less. You get your brand strategy within a week or less. All the deliverables, all the marketing assets, all the products and services are aligned with that.
And this comes down to keeping your brand promise, but because I would say 99% of companies and people have not actually done that work, they've gone straight into bringing it to life because this is how we make money, it falls flat and this is why, you know, I, I always say, just copying somebody else's tagline and see, because it works for them, doesn't mean it flies for you because you've got a different story, a different value proposition, a different differentiator, [00:18:00] but you don't know yet.
So you just, uh, copy somebody else's version. And of course, you're doing them a service because you just make them bigger and better and you undermine your own authority with it.
Sally Porteous: Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. So we really need to check, don't we? We really need to check in that. What, what is being created for us, or the words that are being written for us. Like I, what I do is I read things out loud.
So my latest I ha I've recently had two iterations. One Seth Godin actually said Do Work That Matters for People Who Care. And when I heard that, I was like. That, that is the kind of events I do. So when people ask me What type of events do you do, I say, I do events That Matter for People Who Care, and that has now become my North Star. So if people come to me and ask me to do something that is not aligned with that it's a no thank you.
It doesn't really matter. [00:19:00] I suppose it would matter how much money you had, um, there's always a conversation to be had. But my latest, my latest is Great Events Happen Here. And I, I drove past a TAFE sign that and it was something like, life happens here or something like that. And as soon as I read it, I went, oh my God, Great Events Happen Here.
And it aligned with all three parts of my business. And the more I say it. Uh, the more comfortable it feels and exciting it feels to say it. More so than Events That Matter for People Who Care. Because when I said Events That Matter For People Who Care, people still kind of didn't get that. So we've gotta really find the message, don't we, that people understand what we mean, but it also resonates
Petra Zink: with us.
And this is where feedback loop comes in. So we can't build a brand, a product, a service, an event in isolation. You constantly need to stress [00:20:00] test. And also just because you've found something that resonates and flies and people laugh, doesn't mean it will fly and be loved forever. Like I've seen it with my messaging two years ago it was just going gangbusters and kind of, you know, hot cakes were selling there.
And then a year later it slowed down. Six months now in this message has well passed now. Yeah. Why not? So it because the market is changing, the audience is changing, their priorities are changing. The context that we're operating in is changing and being tone deaf to what's going on in the world is again, something that breaches trust quicker than we can say the word trust.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. And it's much, so many options for people, right? Yeah. There's so many options for people. Alright, let's get into question two. In your post that encouraged this very conversation, you talked about how you built your own GPT and the value of taking that action. Were you ever scared of AI, which I think we've kind of briefly touched on there, and if so, [00:21:00] how did you get over that? And if not, are there any things that concern you about AI now?
Petra Zink: Yes to all of the above. As I said, when I registered first for ChatGPT, I gave it a fake email address because I was so scared of giving away my data and I get scammed and whatsoever because it was a new thing and people didn't speak about it too much.
But at the same time, I had FOMO because there were like a hundred thousand users already. By week two or something like that. And I didn't wanna be left out. And I was like, no, I'll just embrace it. And then I just got to love it very quickly. And then maybe five months after ChatGPT launched, one of my ex candidates who had placed in a couple of roles came to me with an AI idea.
So this is how we started investing in it and building that business up. And this got me a lot more comfortable with it because it was kind of front row seat with what it actually takes to develop it ethical, ethical ai, not just any ai, uh, how it operates, how it learns, what are the safety mechanisms.
So because it was so hands on [00:22:00] and so front row seat involved in that, I didn't have a fear anymore. With that said, now you know. Again, fast forwarding 18 months. I also see what's happening in the job market and it's hard. I don't believe the Australian employment slash unemployment statistics, they are not true.
I do not believe that because they're also fabricating the numbers with full-time students are not counting as unemployed. But if you look at how many applicants are coming in per job, it's like the 2008 numbers again all over from financial crisis and looking at the US it's even worse.
So clearly there is something going on at the same time, I think it's the 11th quarter now in a row, that the private industry has not raised new jobs, only public, and there's only so many jobs that public can provide without private paying for it. So that's a massive concern. So I've got more of a concern what it actually does to, um, the labor market in the short term. Because yes, in the long term there will be new jobs created, but we just [00:23:00] haven't seen that yet. And that's the concern.
Sally Porteous: I guess we're in that, in that dip, aren't we Again, Seth Godin talks about the dip. We're kind of, we're, we're up here for the technology, but we're down here for the people and the people haven't quite figured out yet if I'm not doing that, what am I doing?
Petra Zink: Yes. Yeah. And at the same time, the companies also have no idea what they're actually doing. So AI is not necessarily embedded in workflows already. Everyone says they're using AI, but using ChatGPT for a quick prompt or using Canva to come up with something is not embedding it in workflow. So this is probably another two or three years or something away. And then we can create new roles around it.
But currently I always describe it with, there's a lot of dust in the air. We can't just grab it, what it means. And even though I've prided myself to always being able to look around the corner and have developed products before they were, you know, trendy. I started talking about personal branding 12 years ago, nobody was interested and now all of a [00:24:00] sudden it's becoming a thing.
12 years ago, people, what's happening here? But, um. I think it will come. It's just not there yet. And this what makes education hard. It makes it hard. What skills to actually learn and focus on? Because you know, everyone talked about you need to get into AI automation. This is a big boom. But now AI can automate itself already.
So two months in, it's already old news and that's a bit disheartening when you just master the skill. Everyone else can do it already too, or automation can do it and you are irrelevant. So that's a bit of a concern. Yes, I do,
Sally Porteous: I agree to, to a point, and I wanna talk about this because, you know, you work with a lot of executives, many of whom, who have executive assistants. Now, more than a year ago now, probably about 14 months ago, I ran a workshop at the Brisbane Business Hub on how to use AI to enhance your events, to sell out your events.
So it was essentially a workshop um, demonstrating the AI tools I use when I'm coming up with copy, [00:25:00] content as in like structure, here's, you know, this is what the client is looking for in terms of the outcome they want. What might that program look like? Um, I would use it for research to understand what's happening around the rest of the world. 'cause we're so isolated over here in Australia, you know, we don't see a lot of what happens around the rest of the world, particularly Singapore and places like that.
And I was a third of the way through my presentation when I went, actually, can I, can I just get a sense check in the room? Do you all know what Canva is? Does everybody know what Canva is? Are you using it? Can I tell you, three quarters of the room shook their heads, right? So I see a huge issue with a whole layer of workforce, and this is what I, I want your thoughts on this because.
You are encouraging the executive to use AI to [00:26:00] help shape what it is that they're, they're going to become. But they work in workplaces or they run workplaces where AI is not allowed, they're not allowed to use ChatGPT. They, they're, they're only allowed to use copilot. That's it. They're not allowed to use Canva. They're not allowed to use any, any of these tools. You and I have the privilege of using. Because of the security risk. So I feel like there's this whole layer of workforce out there, EAs, PAs, admin officers, marketing coordinators. There's a whole bunch of people out there who are still being forced to use Adobe, Microsoft, like all of these legacy products that just they're not, they, they slow everything down. There's, there's tools that move you so much quicker now.
How? How can we help those people understand that they need to start playing with this stuff at home? They need to go and buy themselves a laptop or a desktop [00:27:00] PC or a Mac or whatever and start using and pretending they are in a workplace where they're allowed to use these tools, how do you think that's something we should be doing? Because I don't know, do you agree with me? Do you think there's a whole layer of workforce that really are going to be in trouble
Petra Zink: soon? Absolutely. And I see the gap widening further and further.
Same with middle class. It's not going to be a thing for much longer. And yes, it was a created. But at the same time, we can see now you've got rich and you've got very poor. Um, more and more now. Same with skills. The one word that comes to mind or two words is mindset and agency. It starts there, and I want to be more technical and practical, but at the same time, if people are not taking some responsibility over their own career in 2025 and beyond. Sorry, you've got no excuse. We've got access to that. And I had this big wake up call when I, in 2015, so 10 years [00:28:00] ago was looking for another marketing role, but I hadn't upskilled in digital marketing and social media, which became a bit of a thing. I thought, it's not tangible. What can I, I can't even sell a product Like this is weird.
It goes away. So this is what, literally what I thought, and all of a sudden, and this is why I got out of the marketing industry, because I was not relevant anymore. And this is why I got into recruitment and I thought in the next year I just upskill very quickly and then go back into marketing. So that was Plan A, never eventuated.
But at the same time, now, 10 years later when we've got more access to tools that are even free, like back then we even had to pay for everything. There's no excuse to not learn outside your work. And it's probably controversial because everyone is pushing their responsibility to the employer, but.
An employer is responsible for giving you work and paying you for that work. No, like even, I know wellbeing is a big topic, but at the same time, we used to work eight, nine hours in the job, go home and then have a life, and now the employer has to provide everything [00:29:00] and a wellbeing package for the dog too.
I don't agree with that, but it's probably, you know, very controversial topic that we then has lead to get into. But coming back to that agency, look after your own career, make yourself indispensable by skill stacking like your foundational skills. They're not going away, but you add. How to use AI. You add how to edit podcasts, you add that, you know that you've got a proper skill stack, and that makes you relevant for wherever you want to go next.
Sally Porteous: Yeah, I admit when I've, uh, I've employed people in the past, I've, I've often been surprised at their lack of ancillary skills, I guess, you know, like I say, have you ever used Canva before? No. What's that? Are you using ChatGPT? Oh, I might ask it a question here or there, but I think you are right and it's easier than it's ever been.
So you don't have to go to TAFE anymore to upskill. You don't? Well, I mean, I don't, I do advocate for formal education, don't get me wrong. But if, if you just wanna know what's happening and, start to across [00:30:00] these things. All of these platforms have free versions. You don't have even have to pay, do you?
You can just use the free version to its limits and just watch the videos, watch the tutorials, spend more time on YouTube, learning how to do things right.
Petra Zink: That was literally my next statement. I'm about to transition to another online platform the third in like, I don't know how many years. Anyway, I do exactly that.
I learn on YouTube and then implement it straight away because you can do it. There's no reason for me to a pay or say, oh, it's all too hard. I can't figure it out. We can all figure it out. There's literally three minute tutorials. If I don't have time to spend three minutes on education. My priorities are quite wrong because everyone's got time to binge watch Netflix for three hours in at night, so we can make the time for it.
Sally Porteous: That's an interesting, um, there is a, this psychological argument to that and I did read something about that recently. Um, and it's about that we do have, you know, the fish [00:31:00] attention span right now, you know, being the three second attention span. But at the same time, at the end of the scale, we can actually sit down and watch seven hours worth of a TV show.
And they are looking at that psychologically and, uh, what, what is, why, how come, how come? Mm-hmm. We can do both. And so yeah. That's, that's really interesting. Really interesting.
So you've talked about that, um you know, you own your own recruitment firm. And so have market intelligence into the future of work, are there any other next steps that you think the likes of EAs and people like that should be doing to build their own IP, their own frameworks and assets to build their own authority? So your specialty, of course, is helping executives do this. Is there some first steps that those that are perhaps not at that executive level yet, but do need to start, uh, building their own authority, 'cause I, I love this. I, I really wanna see, and [00:32:00] I've mentioned to you before, I'm kind of, I'm all about the grassroots and, and I'm in groups on social media and the questions I see people ask horrify me like they just. They really scare me. You know, my boss does this, my boss does that, or people who feel trapped, you know, they really feel trapped because they don't, they can't see a way forward.
Taking ownership, agency, as you mentioned, how, how can someone who maybe doesn't have the length and breadth of experience of an executive, start to document or start to build that authority for
Petra Zink: themselves? That's the beauty. It is a, an ideology that everyone can implement. I just focused on executives because A, they have been my target audience for 10 years, so I've had access to them, but at the same time, they also have ripple effects to their teams to then if they want to sell their business, for example, they can increase valuation, [00:33:00] but if they want to start a business, they can get more investment.
So it was a natural. That I've always worked with executives. With that said, every single person who's done something more than 10 times has a bit of an idea how to actually do it. And there's prediction that the majority of the future of work is entrepreneurship, which means you can't rely on the one full-time job that pays all your bills.
You may have three fractional roles or three contract gigs or whatever it might be. One might be 10 hours. The other one.
Sally Porteous: Those entrepreneurs of us, I've been doing that for years. Like, I remember working, like starting in a workplace at 6:00 AM doing a four hour shift using my break to drive to the next one, using my break to drive and then running party plan and, and you know, selling tupperware and jewellery and all kinds of things of
Petra Zink: the nighttime.
But the positive on that, and I've also always done it, and this is what we call portfolio career. I've never in history since I was 14 and this is where I started, um working in my dad's [00:34:00] business. And then anyway, uh, I've never had one job in my life at the same time. I've got, you know, eight different income streams at the moment with four big engagements, and that's not even much.
And especially now with AI, we can do a lot more, but because the pendulum has swung the other way and we outsourced the responsibility to that one employer to look after me forever. We've become a little bit lazy. And this is why building your own IP is probably the one thing that future proofs you because you can then monetise it in different ways.
So when we are an EA and my focus and my specialization is I can turn random people structures into org charts that, you know, turn or that increase retention by 50% or anything. What's my brand promise? What I've done so many times, what people have recognised me for, what I enjoy doing, how can I systemise that?
So if I go into another EA role or if I'm a virtual [00:35:00] assistant, because we can do that. It's the same thing, it's the same value proposition, but I don't have to research and figure out how am I doing that again, I've got my template. It's like, hang on, we do this. And with that you are a more predictable with your outcomes and also repeatable, so you get more confidence in what you actually offer.
Because if I say I can promise you to develop a brand strategy. How to develop a brand strategy. You know, next minute I watch activity. Of course, it doesn't get anywhere and running, especially a service-based business, you can't always create bespoke offers for every single person because you have to do research, you have to put something together, you then have to deliver, then you have to tweak and refine, so you lose so much time and money on that initial part that nobody values because they come to you because you say you can do it. So when you then figure out how to do it, it loses credibility straight away.
And this is why I love frameworks because it frames your work, but it also leaves enough flexibility to tailor it. So I always say [00:36:00] it's a toolkit, and depending on the situation, you may start at step three in your framework because this client is already further ahead.
But in other cases, you may need to go straight to the beginning and do the entire thing, but it just gives you a little bit of North Star, where do we even start? What do we need to do? And when you try to sell yourself, which is always a bit hard, when we try to sell ourselves our own expertise, we can refer on the framework that delivers the result.
I just happen to facilitate it. But Johnny and Susie over there, they could also facilitate it because it's a repeatable and predictable process. And this. Especially nowadays where trust is at an all time low, I truly believe it's the differentiator between you getting the job or the engagement or the project compared to somebody else who's got the same experience and expertise, but they're not able to articulate that.
Sally Porteous: And it's consistency, right? You can, if you can show a framework, psychologically, the person looks at it and goes, oh, you do the same, do it the same way every time. Great. So if I like it [00:37:00] that way, I'll buy it and I'll get the same way every single time, as you said, particularly in service industries, because otherwise we're like, yeah, but if I buy it this time and you do it that way this time, and then next time I wanna do something different, you might do it in a different way. So we all need those processes.
I think the key message there, the the closing message that I really want to share. With people who are in the roles that are possibly not at that executive level, and maybe some executives are also feeling in the same place. I guess it's not really a level thing, but for those people who are listening, who are feeling like there's nowhere to go, you know, their job is over, get out and start playing with it, and don't be afraid to start a side hustle. Right.
Well, I'm not sure. I haven't been an employee for a long time, but you know, back in my day there was no way in the world I was allowed to have a second job. It was in your contract, you were not allowed to have a second job. Is that still the case? Like [00:38:00] what's, what's the feeling in, in the corporate sector about people
Petra Zink: having a side hustle? It very much depends on the organisation, but in the second it is. Using their IP or it's Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no.
Yeah. But if you are a digital marketer and you want to offer dog walking, go for your life, you know? Yeah. Especially when you can prove that you're not using the hours that you work there for. This Absolutely not.
Sally Porteous: No. No. Normally side hustle, like nighttime, your own IP, your own resources. Yes. No company computers or anything like that. You've got your own laptop and wifi. Not doing anything in the workplace. No.
Petra Zink: Agree with that at all. That's it. But when I was in marketing, I always was still a personal trainer at night. On, on weekends. Yeah. But it was from like seven o'clock onwards, so it didn't interfere with my actual workouts.
So yeah. And it's just about being transparent, saying this is what I'm doing, rather than doing it secretly. [00:39:00] And then the trust is broken too.
Sally Porteous: Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead and try it. That's my advice to anybody out there who is scared for their job and they're not sure what they're going to do, dabble in something else at the same time, it's mm-hmm.
I mean, I, I, I think it's fun. I know there's people out there that are horrified by it, but you've got the security of your job, so it's not like you are taking a giant leap. Uh, you know, mortgaging the house and all the rest of it.
Petra, this conversation has been a delight. Absolute delight. Thank you so much. I, I really hope that what we've been able to do for the listener is encourage them to go and explore AI. What links do you have for us to share? What would you like people to go and check out? Where would you like them to go?
Petra Zink: Even it's a podcast, the most natural progression would be to listen to another podcast.
Yes. Which is The Trusted Authority. And in the show notes, there are all the links. Impaccct with CCC is my company page with free resources and [00:40:00] authority assessment. Free tools, like there's a lot of resources on there and this is probably the best way to get started.
Sally Porteous: Excellent. Excellent. And I'm going to ask you finally what is a key piece of advice that you wish everyone would take? So something that you, you find yourself banging on about all the time that is really simple and you just, like, if you just do this one thing, it will take you to the next level.
Petra Zink: Well, my clients will assure you, this is what I'm banging on every single session it's the 80 20 rule, like we all know that.
But the 20% is the event, and this is where we talk about your area of expertise in a second, but use the 20% to create 80% of the result. So if you're speaking at event, if prepare for it, get people to be part of that by doing it behind the scenes, by doing a time lapse, by saying, you know, should I wear this or that outfit?
So telling your story whilst you're doing it, rather than thinking, oh, I completely messed up the speech. Horrible. [00:41:00] You know, it's, it's one leap in the moment. It's not really relevant, but the 80%, the follow up, the preparation, the connection, the, you know, networking, this is what actually gets you ahead. And also when you attend an event, don't just go there and hope for the best.
Prepare, see who is there, what's their outfit, what were topics from last year, who are the speakers? Connect with them prior. So you've got a bit of an agenda and intention to do it, because that is what, where the magic happens. It's the 80% around the official 20% why, why we are going there.
Sally Porteous: Yes. I love it.
I love it. Well, thank you so much. That's been an absolute delight. And yes, you'll find all the links in the show notes below. And thank you so much, Petra.
Petra Zink: Ah, thank you for having me. It was such a delight. And what a full circle moment. 15 years later. No,
Sally Porteous: it's so it doesn't feel like it long. No, there you go.
I think let add five years on for COVID though. Thank you. That was brilliant.
